Episode 50 – Vesper's Host Dungeon Breakdown & Game Updates

Foreign game is saved for tide.

The game is yours to play now.

The light provides.

This is Eventide Radio. Hello and welcome back to Eventide Radio. This is a fan made Destiny podcast where we have roundtable discussions about a variety of different topics and concerning the popular video game franchise at its core. This shows by having in depth discussions about the game from a variety of different perspectives. I'm your host Scotty with me and my co host Rob and Map and today we're going to dive into the Vespers host dungeon which came out a couple weeks ago shortly after the release of Revenant. But now that we've had a chance to play it, now that we've had a chance to talk about the rest of Revenant, we're going to dive into the dungeon a little bit. But as always before we get into the meat and potatoes of the conversation. Rob, what have you been up to this week in Destiny?

God, that's a really good question.

Besides playing Diablo, not playing Destiny.

No, I've actually I have been playing Destiny quite a bit because. Well first. So I guess we can talk about it more once we dive into it. I like the Halloween event. I don't hate haunted lost sectors. I think they are due for an upgrade and maybe some additional lost sectors or if we went back to the haunted garden, what was it?

Haunted maze, Haunted Forest.

Forest, thank you.

Forest, whatever.

Yeah, the infinite forest that was like haunted. I. If we went back to that like if they just alternated each season like going lost sectors or each year like lost sectors and then force lost sectors and forest I think I'd be okay with that. But this feels like what like the third year in a row we've done the exact same thing and it's just kind of like it's kind of overstayed. It's welcome overall but I still like it. I like trying to get the new weapons. It's like super enticing because now you can farm for the exotic class items. So I was finally able to get a couple that I was missing or kind of was like seeking out like I, I know maybe this is kind of like old news because it's probably obsoleted now but like I really, really wanted an osmiomancy verity roll for my warlock so I got one of those and so, so I like, it's just been fun. I know at the beginning like when it first like launched the day of like it had a shoe poop ton of problems but it kind of like worked itself out now and that new shotgun is Kind of fun to play with. Like, I, I will say this has been in terms of, like, new stuff that we've gotten this season. There's been a lot to play with. Like, we get the, the weird, like, double precision shotgun, which is cool, and the Stasis Glaive, which I've been having a ton of fun playing with. We can talk about that. And then I actually got really, really lucky. And I know I went on my whole megalomaniacal rant about being pissed off about not being able to farm icebreaker, but literally on, like, my third completion of the dungeon, I was able to get icebreaker. So. And to everyone's dismay and probably expected disappointment, I've actually been using it and playing with it and trying it out in a bunch of different builds and having fun with it because I was able to get it early on.

So what, Having fun in Destiny, Is that allowed?

I know. Well, it's so funny. Well, not funny. It's kind of upsetting. Like, there's this, there's the adage of. I know this is like, this is not what I've been playing. The adage of, like, people are so in a hurry to not have to play this game anymore. And that's, like, never been felt more with a lot of the guys in my clan where it's like, they, like. Because GM started this week, and it's like, they did one GM run, and they're like, all right, I'll tune in next week. And it's like, that's all they're doing for the whole week. And it's like, like, it's. I don't know, it's kind of bums me out because, like, I've, I've kind of taken enough time off that I want to dive back into Destiny. I've been having a lot of fun just playing strikes and doing onslaught and, like, kind of vibing with the season. I still think the crafting of tonics is dumb, but the dungeons, I, I, I, so I, I didn't realize until the other day you can give tonics that you've crafted to what's her face. I don't, I don't get reputation and items, so I've been, like, logging in and, or, like, going over there and see what she's looking for, and I'll just craft a bunch of those and make. Give them to her. And that way. That seems to be, like, I hate to say, the most efficient way to get new legendaries, because I, you know, we, we talked about how when it's annoying that we can't craft the seasonal weapons, and I'm really trying to get a decent roll with the hand cannon, and I just cannot get it to drop, like, anywhere. And so I'm like, well, this seems like maybe a viable way.

Are we gonna talk about.

Oh, yeah, we'll definitely talk about Perk Gate. Oh, my God.

Yeah. No, that's. So I don't even start it. The whole thing is.

Yeah, but I've been playing the game actually quite a bit, and it was really funny because the other day on the clan chat, people are like, what are you doing? I'm like, I'm playing destiny. And they're like, oh, you're actually playing Destiny? I'm like, well, this is a destiny, like Clan Discord and Clan. So, yeah. And there's many times where I'm the only one playing in our whole clan, and it really bums me out because it's good. Festival Lost is fun. The. The armor's neat. Like, I. I don't know. It's. It's fun, and that's what it should be. I don't know.

I may have bought the armor set because I'm broke on silver.

Respectable.

It was my own little. It was my own little treat. I came on, I was like, oh, the Titan set, they did up the. They did fuck up the gauntlets from the concept art. Did up the gauntlets. But I wanted the chest piece. I really like that chest piece. And the. And the mark actually, for once, helmets. Okay. But that's not why I wanted it. And I was like, I have no bright dust because I spend it all. So I did buy silver, but. Yeah, yeah, but per Gate, I. I. I sort of saw it happening. Like, I was watching it unfold. And it's one of those things where, as I've said before on here, that I have not grinded for a weapon in forever because I don't care that most of the guns I do not care about at all. So it hasn't, I guess, hasn't really affected me. I can see it. All right. It has affected me a little bit when they added. Is it. Is it Claws of the Wolf? The Void, Rapid Iron Banner? When they added that back into rotation, I wanted a specific role on it. And I kept getting the same two perks paired together a lot. I just thought it was dumb luck because, like, that's life. I didn't think it was. I didn't suspect perks being weighted accidentally.

Finish with that. Finish with that.

But I was gonna say that's Like, I. I wasn't like, yes, I need this gun. I was. I was. I just wanted a good roll of it. I would. But I. Boy, I haven't been, as I said before, going after guns with specific roles because I have what I want currently for the last, like, I don't know, a few years. It feels like I don't really. It hasn't affected me, but it was interesting to see it unfold.

Yeah. So for those of you who have maybe been living under a rock, Perk gate that we are going to be talking about was a. An epiphany that the community stumbled upon through very diligent data collection and statistical analysis, which I'm actually, like, very proud of. But as it turns out, people have always kind of like, suspected and poked at that perks are weighted in a weird way that either it's not completely random or if you get one perk in the. The first column, that it maybe affects this. The outcome of the second perk in the. In the second column. And they. In a podcast, like a year ago, one of the main guys was like, no, it's always. It's rng. Like, one doesn't have any effect on the other. And so, you know, everyone kind of let that go. But recently there's been the. Was it the. The weapon from the new. I just got one last night. That's actually the chill. The chill inhibitor. So everyone wants envious arsenal and bait and switch. That's like the God roll for it. And people have been farming the hell out of the first encounter because it was bugged for a while, where you could. You could duplicate the nuke and basically, like, just blitz through that first encounter and farm the hell out of this, like, a lot. And people started noticing that no one was getting that role, like, at all in any way, shape or form. And so then people are like, maybe it is weighted and Bungie's been lying to us. And then Bungie came out and was like, nah, nah, you guys are crazy. Like, we just. I, like, I think DMG was like, I just, you know, quadruple check.

It was also a former device. It doesn't work there now.

Yeah, there was a dev that also. Yeah, yeah.

And said like, you're crazy. Like, we've never weighted perks.

Right. And, and, and what incentive does he have to lie about it? Because he got laid off and doesn't work there anymore. I think he was laid off. Right.

Yeah, so I believe so. Yeah. The first.

So everyone was.

Yeah, so everyone was like, there's no there's no hidden weight behind it. And then people just kind of kept pushing back and started collecting all this data. And as it turns out, there's kind of like a. Hard to explain audibly, but there's. If you look, people have kind of generated like a heat map. And as it turns out, if you go to something like D2 foundry and you look at the perk combinations, the is it. It seems like there is a higher likelihood of whatever you get in the first column that the second column will be a perk that is adjacent or closer next to it than the other. So literally, if you look at the like D2 foundry, because it lists the perks in a very specific combo. And that's like pulled from the API. Yes. And so it's like if, if you get. So I'm looking at Gravadic Arrest, which is a new fusion rifle. If you get Demolitionist, there's a high likelihood or a higher likelihood that you're going to get Kickstart. And then as you get further away from Demolitionist in that second column, the drop rate becomes less and less likely to the point where if you're trying to get like demo and withering gaze, you probably have like a 1 in 4,000 chance of getting it or something. Like, there's still a likelihood. Like there's one person that has that envious arsenal bait and switch. But considering it is the most sought after perk combo, it's kind of crazy that no one else has it because a lot of these websites will list what the community kind of has and what they're keeping. So you get an idea of like, oh, this is the perk combo that I should be going for for PvP or PvE. And so there's, there's a lot of data out there to kind of show what the column perk distribution is. And yeah, as it turns out, the further you are just kind of in that, that scope, the less likely you are to get that perk combo. And then, and then the bungee team was like, all right, let's kind of look into this because this is, this is weird because people were able to go back and it wasn't just chill inhibitor. They were looking at like previous weapons and, and able to kind of corroborate that. Even last season it seemed like it was the case and maybe even the season before, but it's not clear how far back it goes. And so you might be asking yourself, like, how are we just now finding out about it? And it's like the truth is because We've had weapon crafting for so long that this has been kind of irrelevant because oh you, okay, you just get to get the red borders and then you craft it and then bam, you, you can choose whatever per column or combo you want. So it's independent of weapon crafting bad or Yeah, I guess if you want to look at it that way, or weapon crafting good. Because now you don't have to worry about this or that. There's never been a specific combo that's been so far like just coincidentally out of reach. Like it's not clear why, why the perks are listed in the order that they are. It's not like they're alphabetical. It's just like how they choose to set up the perks in the API and that seem or like how they, you know, design the weapons innately. Like however the traits are and how it translates to the API and that RNG generation. But it's, it seems like all the, the kind of highly sought after dungeon weapons which traditionally haven't been craftable. It just so happens that some of them that have been highly sought after, like what was the, the stasis rocket launcher from Ghost of the Deep, like the ideal like envious assassin bait switch on that one or whatever those happen to be like right next to each other. So the likelihood of them dropping together was high. And so it was like we've never really noticed this because we've had weapon crafting and because it's, it just, it's kind of like slipped through the, the, the, the radar or fell under the radar. But because there was highly sought after perk combo, people started realizing like, hey, this is never dropping for anybody. So they are working on a fix in place. Like they've totally owned up to it and it is not intentional.

Yeah, yeah, I was going to say like it wasn't like someone sat there and went hahaha, let's make it shit for people farming for this role.

Right? Because they, and they, because multiple times they've been explicit in the one perk does not determine the perk of the other and that is simply not the case. And people have proven that with like high quality quantities of data to kind of back up that claim. And so Bungie's owned up to it, they're fixing it, they're even giving out an emblem and they said they're going to work on kind of compensating people in some way. They haven't really said what that means. So maybe they'll give out like everyone's going to get a chill inhibitor with that Perk combo because maybe they'll get.

A few guns from the season that are like four out of five Rose.

Right. Exactly. Exactly. So, so we'll, we'll, we'll see how that kind of manifests itself. So that's what Perk Gate is in a nutshell, is RNG is not as rng. And of course, like, you know, there's no such thing as true RNG on any kind of like, computer system because typically a seed is generated and how that seed is generated is not truly random and blah, blah, blah. But for all intents and purposes, you really don't have the outcome affected of anything. But I will say when, when this kind of all came out, this is kind of one of those things that really did kind of not sit right with me for a while. Because, like, if they were so confidently wrong about this, what other things exactly. Or, or what? Like, you know, this is, this is totally shot in the dark. And I know this is not founded on anything but plants. That little seed of doubt of like, is this why I had to do 50 runs of vault of Glass to get Vex but some person only had to do two runs?

Like, are you thinking it's like a trainer ID card from Pokemon situation where if you get a certain trainer ID number, that the chance of you having something is higher than on a certain number, you know?

Yeah, yeah. It's like when you, whenever you created your character, whatever, like, who knows? Like, I remember, I remember asking this, like, on the Destiny forums, like back in D1 year one, because, like, I didn't get a Gallahorn and I was pissed off about it. It's like, how have some people gotten 12 gallorns? Because there was the, there was a streamer and I'm trying to remember his name, but he had like, he had gotten like 12g horns to just drop from like nightfalls and at the end of like, PvP matches.

I think I know who you're on about. And I'm trying to remember his name.

He was, he was mostly a PvP player. He was pretty cool. But, like, he had just this. He had amassed a massive collection of G1.

No, I, I, Yeah, no, I remember now.

I'm.

The name is completely gone from my head, but I remember him uploading a video of like, him get like, just. I've got Gallaghorn again. I've got Gallagherhorn again.

Right to the point where it's like, it's like frustratingly like, yeah, there's, there's random. And then there's like, what the hell is this? And it's like, that's the kind of stuff where it's like, you see that and then it kind of like, oh, has it always been some kind of weird. Like it just so happens like how you make your character like, oh, you choose that hair combo with that skin tone and that face paint and that face paint color and that ultimately is what is your, your, your trainer id. And that sets you down this road.

You can get more shiny Pokemon, right?

To either have incredibly good RNG or just be. Yeah, you're doing 50 runs before you get Vex Mythoclast.

Like, I mean I've always, I've always had quote unquote streamer loot. So yeah, I'm not saying I believe it, but I, you know, I would be surprised if that was.

Yeah.

A case. But I've always had good rng when it, when it comes to most things. There are some things I have farmed for and didn't get. But like I've had most RNG raid exotics.

Right. So what the point I'm trying to get is we should just be able to farm exotics indefinitely at the end of raids. So that's that theologist goes back to what I was saying last. Last time.

So one unlucky thing I got this was at the start of D2 is I never got. I had to wait for Zur to sell them. I never got tractor cannon or sweet business. I know they're like me and weapons less so tractor cannon. But I like, I want, I still wanted them and it took me forever to get both of them because I, I, you know, when everyone just farmed exotics, right. Public events, I would just spend my time doing that and would never get like either of them.

It.

Yeah, that's like the only time I think. Yeah, I've been genuinely unlucky with this. Right. But not, not the 50 Vogue runs.

Right.

So did you guys end up getting anything cool? Despite her gate from Vespers, I have.

No interest in any of the guns. As I said from it. I think I've got the gl. I had the. Is it the Void gl, isn't it?

Oh yeah, the tube launcher.

Whatever the hell. I thought I had one, but I don't know where it's gone. I've used it, but I've got the heavy one with chain reaction danger zone that's still sitting in my inventory and a target lock to the pain auto rifle. But other than that, no.

So I've actually gotten pretty lucky. I've gotten the auto rifle with strategist jolting feedback, which is supposedly like feedback because strategist pairs really, really well with a bunch of arc, like pure arc subclass type stuff. So it like, like people have designed like whole arc hunter builds around getting that exact role. It's been fun. Jolting feedback is awesome, but it's com. Sort of completely obsoleted jolt. What's the other one? The when we have to get a kill first volt shot Volt shot. It's kind of, it's kind of obsoleted volt shot in a way because it's just like.

Doesn't it spread less though? There's like.

Yeah, but being able to just like sustain, like if you're, if you're damaging like a champion or something. Being able to just like sustain get jolt. I guess it depends on the gun.

I reckon on like auto subs, machine guns, things like that would be better. Whereas like a hand cannon or maybe, you know, it would be better to have like volt shot.

Yeah. So. And I, I did get a Yesterday's question with the, the volt shot rabbit hit. It's. It's pretty fun. I, I also did so like last night I ran the dungeon because I knew we were going to record, so I wanted to do one run. So it was kind of like fresh in my mind. I did get stupidly lucky and I got a cascade point bait and switch of the chill inhibitor, which is like the other kind of quote unquote God roll. Yeah, I've been tr. I. I'm trying to get more fusion rifles. I've only gotten one to drop because, you know me and my fusion rifles. But like, especially because there's some kind of fun. Like there's a chain reaction demo roll on there that I really want to like, play around with. But I, I've, I've been. I also got nutrition orbs onslaught of the auto rifle.

I did get fun. It's not from the dungeon, but I got a Valetta F. The.

The new sniper.

Yes. I got it with vorpal snapshot. So that was fun in PvP. Yeah, I was very happy with that.

Supposedly withering gaze is pretty nasty with that thing. And not for PvP, obviously, but for PvE. You can do some kind of fun stuff with it. So yeah, like, I, I, so I. All of that to say, like, some of the weapons that have come out this season have actually been pretty fun and, and pretty spicy. And I'm, I'm just so excited and love the. I. I got a rake angle with chill clip, which is the new Glaive, but it's a stasis glaive, so it's in the kinetic slot.

Yeah.

So I've been having that. Yeah, I've been having. Yeah, it's the. Unfortunately it's light blade, but it is double drops. So it is worth kind of like banging your head against trying to get a couple of those completed. Because you know you can get two perks in the. The first column and everyone's kind of going for the rhyme stealer chill clip. And I unfortunately have not gotten one of those yet. But I have been having fun with a chill clip overflow roll.

At least people can run triple Glaive. Now.

That's like a. Yeah, you can run triple flame just like you run triple shotguns. And so it was sniper. Yeah. But it's. It's. And fusion rifle if you want to do like something.

That guy.

Yeah, if you want to be that guy. But hey, you can run Vex Mythical Class, which is technically a fusion rifle.

So don't come in with your technicalities.

It's not a fusion rifle, but no. The weapons this season have been really fun to play around with. And I don't know if you guys have tried that. A lithium like rocket gl, the stasis one that's like the seasonal one. Tried using that. But it's pretty fun. And it feels like it's a little. Does too much damage for it to be a primary. But that's okay because it's awesome. Like, the weapons have been fun and spicy to play with this season. Like just doing like strikes and just putting on like weird loadouts for the sake of like trying things out. It's been very, very fun. I agree.

It's been actually quite cool. I have a. I know this isn't Vespers host related, but the hand cannon, whatever it's called.

The exuvier.

Exuvier. Thank you. I have a rhyme stealer headstone roll on that. And that one's a lot of fun.

And that's. That's the role I'm trying to get. And I just. I cannot get those stupid things to drop. Like, so.

Yeah, it's. You gotta. You gotta use your tonics, man.

I guess so. I don't even know.

Come at me with a tonic.

I don't even know what tonic to use because there's so many of them.

Just use the one that gets you weapons.

Is it. Is there one specifically for seasonal weapons? Yeah. Okay. And you Just pop the tonic and then just like, farm things like onslaught, and they'll just drop.

Like, I think it's gotta be onslaught weapons. But yeah, I could be wrong, but yeah, yeah, you just do it and then you're like, potentially get a drop from kills and activity completion.

Does it consume? Like, does the tonic go away once you get the drop and then you have to pop another tonic? Or is it just for that hour.

For, like, however long the time period the tonic is?

Yeah, this just goes to show how much I've, like, not played.

I literally made the ones required for the story and then that was it.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I. I made enough so that I could do all the. The minor field work and the major field work and like.

Oh, your favorite thing.

Yeah, well, they're just so. They're so pointless. And I was like, okay, maybe the major field work will be cooler. And it's the same thing. You just load into widow's court and you just fight a bunch of enemies for like, four minutes. But there's no. And I guess what. There's a bug like that. There's like, the dialogue isn't playing, and it's like, okay, well, I can't go back and play the mission again, so I guess I'm not gonna hear that dialogue. Like, it's just. Oh, it's so frustrating. Like, I don't know why they made those missions like the way they were. Like, have me go run around and do something in, like, even a lost sector, but just to stand by a table and kill things for, like, two minutes is just, like, the most un. Involved. Like, just boring activity I think they've ever done. That just doesn't make any sense.

But, yeah, I'm basically just waiting for Tomb of the Elders. That's basically what I'm.

I'm. I. If it's anything like prison builders, I am all on board for that. Like. Like, I'm hyping myself up for maybe something that'll be disappointed, but I'm really hoping for.

So going back to. To vespers.

Yeah, let's talk about vespers. That's the point of this. Sorry, Scotty.

No, you're good. Did you guys end up playing any of the contest mode? Did you guys attempt it during that weekend? I was out of town.

I did not get a chance. No, no.

Okay.

I did a little bit. We. We started Saturday night, and we did, like, the opening encounter, trying to, like, open the door, which is really stupid. That. That's a darkness zone. Yeah.

I do think that is a bit silly.

There's a lot of stuff that should not be a Darkness Zone, but in.

Dungeons we tried it and then we got to like the first encounter and I got crushed by the brig because I activated the thing and didn't turn around. I did that once and then one of our buddies was like, hey, maybe we should try to like, just go through this normal because it had already been completed, right. So like, we could play it on normal. So we. We just ran. So we're like, let's run on normal and then see if we want to try this on Master. Now that we are on. On contest mode, now that we like understand the mechanics, you know. And so we ran it through on normal, definitely. Well, then we tried to mostly go through it blind. Like, we didn't look up any guides. When we saw that streamers had been on it for like 12 straight hours, we're like, yeah, we're not gonna do this. So we just did it on normal mode and called it good and had a fun time.

So.

But we did do like part of the first encounter or up to the first encounter on. On contest and then kind of like, eh, let's just see if we can get through a normal tonight and then go in there.

So.

Yeah, I feel that. But cool. So I guess we all kind of played it on.

I mean, I still went in blind.

Yeah, yeah, I went in blind too. And I. I must say I'm glad you brought that up because we played it blind as well. And I had a lot of fun figuring out the mechanics and everything. And I thought it was a very good blind experience. Personally.

Yes, 100%.

I much prefer this blind experience to something like Spire the Watcher or Grasp of Avarice, where it takes about 30 seconds to figure out what the entire dungeon is mechanics are, you know, so Vespers host is a lot more interesting in the sense that there's more stuff going on. And also, I have never played Deep Stone Crypt, so it made it even more fun.

I know, I know, I know, I know, I know.

I know.

What?

I know. I never played Deep Stone.

We're gonna have to do that. We're gonna have to do that.

That's not to think about it. Yeah, we do need to do a Deep Stone Crypt.

I would love to, because I've heard it's really fun.

It's qu. As well. Like.

Like, yeah, I never did it. So it was fun to play around with the Augments and. And whatnot. I had used them before in Serif's Shield, the Revision Zero mission.

I mean, it was interesting to see that they changed them slightly of how they work.

Yeah. I'm not a fan of the timer, like, dying if you, like, take too long.

Yeah.

And yeah, in most situations, you can dunk it and then just re. Grab it and it's like, okay, if you're not gonna have, like. I. I could understand that if, like, they gave me like, a lockout where I couldn't grab it again for 30 seconds. Like, okay. But, like, I can just dunk it and then grab it again. So there's like, really? No.

Yeah. I think they should have only saved it for the final boss. That. Or something.

Yeah. Although I. I'm not a fan of if when they change how a mechanic works midway through. Like, I still, to this point, don't like disparity, partially because that. Because the bells work differently on the final boss encounter than they do. Like, the rest of the. Like, that bothers me. So I. I prefer they be consistent all the way through, which is like, okay, if they're gonna have the timer and you die if you don't do it, then fine.

Yeah.

At least they stick with, like, what.

What did we think of the, like, the encounter layout sort of thing, so.

Of. Like, which one?

Well, no, no, I mean. Sorry, not the layout of like, the encounter. Like, the order, you know, because some. Some dungeons, they. There's like a bit of a. Like a lull in between. Not just from like a jumping puzzle standpoint, but like. Yeah, like the flow of the raid. The raid, the dungeon.

I think it does a good job of gradually escalating, and I don't think there's necessarily a part where it, like, drags. Except that one part with the doors. I guess I forgot about that. The door part is a little goofy.

Yeah.

I think once you've done it a few times, you can. Like, we went in blind, so it took us a while to figure out where they were and which one to go to.

Right.

But then the next time we did it, it took us like, a few minutes. Yeah.

So exactly. Same. Same is like, once, you know, it's fine. I will say this is. And we can maybe talk about this a little bit more with the criticism part. I would not mind it as much if I could pick up the secret chest that's there, but because I haven't done the messages, I can't. And that's really stupid. Like. Yeah. If this is one thing that I will give criticism back of, if they're going to make the dungeons more kind of like, elaborate, where you're meant to go through it. Like, they kind of hinted this a little bit with Warlord's Ruin, where, like, when you find, like, you kill the stupid screebs that drop all the items, and then you pick those up and you kind of, like, advance this quest and then eventually you can unlock more of the doors that give you more lore, and eventually you go through, like, this secret thing for the big reveal that Shaxx is the one that, like, killed the Ahamkara. They're spoilers, by the way, for Warlords Ruin if you haven't completed it by now. Like, but, like, that's. It's all for lore, not the actual, like, secret chests and like that. But that's, like, really annoying because, like, there was three of us that kind of myself, Nam and Mitch, Scotty. So you know who I'm talking about. Like, yeah, Nam went and did it because he got Icebreaker on his first run, so he was trying to work on the catalyst. So he went with a couple other buddies to try to make progress so he has access to those secret chests. But the. Mitch and I haven't done that yet. And we're kind of like, well, let's like, sit down and, like, grind it out sometime. But it's really frustrating that Nam can access the chest and can get to it, and we can actually physically go to the room and see where the chest is, but we can't get the reward from it. And it's like, that's a really bad design because it makes. It makes that encounter kind of, like, frustrating. And, like, because you can't, there's no reward for it. Like the. When you have these kind of little, like, interim activities where there's something to do if there's at least like, a chest in the process. You're like, okay, it's not that bad because at least I'm getting a secret chest out of it. Whereas this is like, yeah, it kind of sucks the. Because you can't get a reward until you, like, make a certain progress. And at this point, it's just like, know, I need to go do it. It's not that bad. I can go look up a guide. But it's just kind of like, it's dumb that they set it up this way. And I hope they don't do that in the future.

Like, I will say, because, like, you.

Could, like, in Warlords Ruin, I'll say this. And I. Because. Because, like, in Warlord's Room, someone else can open the door for someone and you can go get that Lore.

Yeah.

Whereas, like this, it's like, as long as someone can open that door to get to the chest, everyone should be able to get that chest. But, like, to not to just block it straight out from people is, like, a horrible idea. So. Sorry, that's the end of my rant.

I will say, like, that servitor design is great. Yeah, it's good.

It just spits up exploded servitors, which is awesome.

The debuff you get if you stand near him too much in the.

Oh, integration.

Yeah.

It's going to add you to.

He's going to integrate me.

Yeah.

Awesome. Yeah.

I'm sorry. I know when we first went in the room and we'd never seen it, and I remember the two people are doing it with. They were dying because I. I see him drop more servitors. I was, oh, he's. Servitors all over the floor.

Yeah, it's awesome. It's a cool design, like, straight up and it's. It's neat.

That was a fun one to figure out. That's. It's just. It's because it's kind of strange that you have to, like, find the servitor's number according to the, like, the little dots on them.

Yeah. Which took us a minute. But it's fun to figure out binary representation. So if you know binary, you can just read it rather than having to read their names. But.

Oh, yeah, I'm stupid. I didn't know.

Yeah, it's stupid if you don't, like. If you don't know, you don't know. But that's why.

Yeah, it's not required for the encounter because I had heard someone say, oh, you need binary to figure out the servitor boss. And I was like, I highly doubt they'd do that because they made. I know. Binary. But you needed it for the Outbreak quest puzzle. Step in D1. That's where everyone's like, yeah, that's an exotic quest. And the other parts of that quest were bullshit. Right. Like, very, like, way more confusing than that. But I can't imagine them doing that for an actual encounter where you have to know binary, because that wouldn't be fair.

Yeah, no, I've. I've taken classes on, like, doing math with binary and I can't, like, on the fly, look at a sequence of four dots and know, like, immediately what it is while you're getting shot at and, like, avoiding explosions and traps. So, yeah, I'm glad you don't have to. And it's cool because you can see, like, Their names on which ones. It is so something else.

Wait, where did you send it in?

No, no, no. The one I made.

Oh.

With the very well edited. That was awesome.

I literally just randomly. I randomly had the. I was like, I need to do this now.

I thought it was fantastic. For those of you who haven't seen it, it's on our Twitter page. So go check it out. It's really funny.

I.

So when we were doing it, the. We thought that the dots, like, represented, like, the order in which we had to shoot the numbers.

Yeah, we thought that at first as well. Yeah.

Yeah, we still think that until, like, right now. You just changed everything.

Yeah, yeah. There's no. You can just shoot them, all four of them at any time.

What we were. We couldn't figure out is obviously, suppressor is different. It's a lot different to how you use it in every other time you've. We've picked up the suppressor debuff. So when we first picked it up, we were like, what the do we do with it? There's no. There's no volleyballs floating in the air.

Right.

We were very confused. And then we couldn't figure out if you had to, you know, the thing that you summon, the. Like, the thing that you shoot, obviously. But we thought we had to do it directly on him. So we were just dying every time. And we were like, how are you supposed to do this without dying? Like, right. There is no way of doing, like. Because you can't. Because he just melee attack you.

But, yeah, it's got a pretty generous aoe.

Yeah, but we didn't know. We thought you had to just sit and do it on him the first time we did it.

Yeah. I still have a bad habit where I keep getting too close to him and then it kills me. I'm like, okay, well, that sucks. But, yeah, it's pretty generous with how far away you can.

Yeah. We didn't figure out it. I didn't realize you could shoot it until a little while in. And I was like, oh, I thought I had to actually touch it.

Yeah.

And I could shoot it and it detonates. Everything makes sense now.

Yeah. So I guess maybe we should take a step back. So that's the second encounter is the clump of servitors. Yeah.

But the first one is the brig and the lungs and the heart and the brain, and you go grab the ball, you deposit the ball, you shoot the brig, you restore power to the vesper station.

I believe it's like, what's actually happening. Yeah. You're dumping cores into to repower the station. And by the way everyone, because like a couple people in my claim were like, I don't know who's talking to us. I'm like, I think that's the AI of the space station that's actually Vesper. So the voice of the person that's talking to you while you're going through the excursion is the AI and kind of. So from what I understand, the main plot of the lore is it's this derelict station that some fallen found. And they're. They're fallen that used to follow Eramis. And they sort of like reclaimed this space station as like a home. And then at some point one of the many clones of AATRAX shows up and sort of like what they find some schematics and they think it's like an ether producing machine, which still doesn't make sense to me why they think like on a human space station there would be a schematics to make an ether generator.

Because they're desperate.

I was gonna say because they're desperate. I don't know.

Yeah, so they, they make, they make this thing and as it turns out, it's not a portal, but it's like a relay station or communication station. That's what that big portal looking thing is in the background.

Yes.

And they send a transmission out and then at the very end, when you complete the dungeon, you find out that something responded back.

So can, can I just briefly bring up a leak?

A leak?

I don't know, I don't remember where it was from, but it has been talked about. It has got I guess some credibility to it. But if you don't want to. I don't know. If you don't want to hear me talk about it, then I don't know, skip ahead five minutes. But so. Or plug your ears one of the two or mute me. So there was a leak a while back for what Apollo is. And the person who leaked stuff about Final Shape, who was correct, has also said at the end of this year we go and in Apollo we go and visit another planet with basically another group of people, you know, form of humans.

Right.

And they turn up on a train of some kind and it crash lands in the city. I believe it was something like that. So I was wondering. Yeah, it's really. Sounds really random.

Okay. Starreal.

Yeah. And now people are like, oh. So that signal is got sent to them. I don't know.

Right.

Well, something I want to add to the lore, recap. If I'm not Mistaken. I could be way off base. So correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's not actually Aatrax, the corrupted puppeteer.

Right, right. It's one of the clones of.

No, it's. Well, it's like a Vex AI basically that Clovis made on Vesper Station. Like an AI that he tried making using Vex technology. And it kind of went like, I don't know, gained sentience and kind of went crazy and it possessed Atrax's like one of Atrex's bodies.

Right?

Yeah, that's just like the physical body that it's using. But that's like a Vex AI thing.

I was gonna say because it's not even called Aatrax or Corpse of Atrax.

Or, you know, corrupted puppeteer.

Yeah, hence the puppeteer.

Which sounds cool, by the way.

Yeah, which sounds very cool. Yeah. So maybe. I mean, it could. They could be talking to Vex people. I mean, that's just schwabing then up.

Because when they. When that leak. When I read that leak, the first thing I thought of was Astro Train. But that's. That's.

So.

Yeah, it does sound very random.

Yeah. And the. The message that we received back is seems human and not like. Because everyone's like, oh, it's like, okay, see the lead.

That's what I was saying.

Yeah, but it's. You know, it's all that if that's the case.

That's so random.

Right?

A fucking train. Maybe it's not a train. And that's what they interpreted it as. You know, like maybe.

Well, maybe it's like a space train or something.

That's what it is. That's what it is. It crash lands in the city or something like that. That's cool. But like, that's so random.

It's actually completely agree.

It's actually another Maya Sundaresh, guys.

Yeah, the last one. It's M son 13.

Oh my gosh.

You know, that I. You know, it's kind of annoying and I get. We could get.

We could get. We could get Thomas perfected at that point.

Is. It's weird to me that, you know, everyone. Everyone assumed that the M son 12 was like the 12th, like copy or iteration of Maya Sunrush. But It's. It's the OG one. It's just she happened to have a 12 at the end of her name. Like, and it's like. Yeah. And it's like the. Or no, it's not. She's not an exo. It's you know, it's just like. Oh, it's just like, yeah, demons, layers.

69.

Yeah, exactly. And so that. That's all it is. And it's like, man, why would you. The one time that, like there's multiple copies of someone and there's a number at the end and it ends up not being the case that it's the 12th version. I just found that a little bit. Like, it's kind of funny. Stupid. But anyway, that was just a side thing. Totally not related at all to the rest of this conversation. But anyway.

Yeah, no, that's kind of funny.

I wonder when they'll. Because obviously they've added into like the canon of destiny that guardians dance around in the tower and like emo and do stupid shit like that. I wonder when they're going to add canon that guardians, like, call themselves names that are references to people. Like they'll actually add that.

Yeah.

Okay. I'm glad we're talking about this. This is a complete. Like, this is maybe the most tangential tangent of all Tangents. But why is Osiris. Osiris. And why did they go all in on like the Egyptian.

Egyptian thing?

Because it's his. Is it like. Maybe because it's his name.

Or maybe he picked. Maybe he liked. Like he, he was fascinated with Egypt when he was resurrected. Like he'd been there or that's where.

He was resurrected in.

Yeah, I was gonna say. And he likes the architecture because that's the first thing he saw. And that, that style. Like, like, I mean, it'd be really weird if he was resurrected in a pyramid. Oh, actually, you know what? Maybe he could have been. Maybe he actually is.

He's a hero.

No, maybe he's actually from ancient Egypt.

Yeah, that would be, you know, original. I would be okay with that.

If he's from like modern day Egypt, obviously you have pyramids there. But like they have. It's not like that's their architecture everywhere. They don't just have pyramids. Chilling like, oh, I'm gonna go down Tesco or Walmart. Oh, it looks like a pyramid. You know, that's not the case. So maybe he is. I don't know, maybe there is more on that that I haven't read up on.

No, I've looked into this before and there's. I can't find anything conclusive.

So but maybe, maybe he. Yeah, he just was a fan of it and that's what he based his like armor off of as well.

Right. But then like all of his followers and all that, like all Kind of, you know, everything's got like, you know.

But if I, if I started a cult and name myself after something from Destiny that was destiny related.

That's true. Everyone kind of copy and follow suit. That's fair. Yeah, that's fair.

That's fair.

I just, I've just always kind of wondered that.

And it's only really something that people have pointed out to me. Like I, I was aware of it, you know, like, obviously, like. And then a lot of the music in say Curse of Osiris is very like Egyptian esque in some ways, like with the instrument choices and things like that. But I never, I've never really sat there and thought about it too hard. Already cared that much. It's like. Well, it's just a way of having that sort of theme in the game, you know.

Right.

Fair.

Which is fine.

Yeah. It's just funny law. Like the dragon. The. Is it dragon regalia or the dragonfly armor set from Forsaken. It doesn't look like a dragon or a fly. Yeah, but they were saying that the people of modern day dragonflies are extinct and they're saying that the people of modern, modern day don't know what dragonflies look like.

Is that true? I feel like dragonflies fluttering around in Venus or May.

Or it's not. Or maybe it's another animal.

Do they not have records of dragonflies?

There's just funny lore, isn't it?

Yeah, well, it doesn't. It. Ultimately it doesn't matter. It's like there's that in the updated Arms Dealer where who's the. The cheeky English fellow who's in. In the dz, Devram makes some comment about the proverbial hydra, like, you know, cutting the head off of one hybrid and replacing it with another. And Kaido's like, hydras only have one head. And it's like completely lost on her that in Greek mythology there's a thing called a hydra that's got multiple heads. And like. Yeah, this is kind of funny. Like, you know, it's all like that.

Well, there you go then. Do we think that. So whoever. The first person to. Or a Vanguard member at one point categorized the Vex and named them.

Right.

Because what. Because the Vex don't speak. Well, I mean they do, but you don't speak English.

Right. Call them harpies and. Yeah.

So how do we know their name? But then how do say cabal know? You know, like callous sits there and goes, oh, Vex Hydra. You know.

Right.

How does he know that's A game. It's a game at the end of the day.

And why do I. Do all the cabal have names of, like, Roman soldiers? Right? Like phalanx and. And centurions. Right. It's just. It's fine. It's. It's totally fine. It doesn't matter.

It was the winner. The winner did it.

Yeah, exactly.

There you go.

Yeah. Named them. Named them long before our. Our history even existed. So it's fine.

Okay, I'm going to pull us back to Vespertos for a second.

Yes.

Yeah.

All right. So where did we even leave off? We were talking about the first encounter.

And between my servitors.

Yeah. So, yeah, the first encounter is you have the. The. You have two kind of the. The scanner and the op. And the scanner has to tell which the operator. Which of the panels they have to shoot, and that causes a nuke to form. Then you have to awkwardly carry the nuke back and power the station. And that's the first encounter. You do it three times. There's a brig you have to destroy in order to drop the shield on the nuke depositing station. Pretty straightforward. Pretty fun.

Countries would be salivating if that was the true. True.

Some panels and a nuke appears. Yeah, that's fair.

I do. Joe, I love the sound design of the nukes appearing in. In. In deep. Like, you know, the deep stone alarm of the nukes appearing. That is still one of them. It's such good sound design. Yeah.

All the while the. So the backdrop is this is like a space station that's been kind of completely, like, ripped apart because this. This anomaly, like, the sort of emitted this huge burst of energy and caused it to essentially, like, fracture apart. And so part of the. The jumping puzzle area sections is you're just traversing, like, what's. What remains of part of the ship that collide, because I think also a catch, like, landed there, and part of it's, like, kind of shoved in there. And so you're kind of jumping around.

Part of the catch, too, that jumping puzzle between the servitor and the. The final boss there. That's a good jumping puzzle.

Yes. Not Ghost of Short and Sweet. Yeah, not Ghost of the Deep. Yeah, it's Short and Sweet has a beautiful skybox, by the way, because you're. You're in orbit around Europa, but also the whole time you have this backdrop of this, like, portal communication thing and the. The ship that's just, like, shattered into a million pieces. It's awesome. And yeah, I think it's the. I was going to say, because we were. We were kind of gauging it with some of the other traversal sections in, like, Ghosts of the Deep and stuff like that. And like, that is. Is. That is tedious and long. And I get it from a thematic storytelling. Again, makes for a great first day, day one experience. But, like, that. That dungeon would benefit from some kind of, like. Okay, once you've completed the dungeon, like, three or four times, there's a skip where you can just port to the second encounter. Because I feel like most of that dungeon's time is taken up with traversal. And that sucks because it, like, thematically, it's maybe the best dungeon ever, but, like, running it is miserable. Whereas this is, like, fun because it's just the right amount of time. Like, just when you start getting annoyed, it. You're done and it's perfect.

That's. Does that sum up destiny in a nutshell or what?

Well, I just. Sometimes it goes on for too. Like, I. I get they're telling a story, right? More than anything, the way you said.

It, like, just as it gets annoying, it stops. It's done. But it's.

As opposed to, like, Ghost of the Deep, where that, like those underwater sections, you're like, okay, I get it. Okay.

The first time you do it, right? And then immediately after that, it's just.

Yeah, pain, right? And you come up for air, you're like, thank goodness you're done. And then you're like, no, you have a whole other section before that second encounter, it's like, come on. And it's like, yeah, that. That is pinnacle, like, misery. And I still stand by. I think, what's the. Oh, my God, I'm blanking the. The light. One second, guys.

I've got a flicker switch on a boiler. Yeah, no, you're good.

Wow. My. My brain is not working today at all.

You're forgiven.

The raid with which you get, you fight Nezerak. Why can't I think of the Root of Night, Root of Nightmares?

That's because you tried to block it out of your.

Yeah.

Memory.

Yeah, I know. The one raid that I've done, like, the actual day one and completed it on, and I've just pushed it out of my mind.

Yeah.

But.

Was he.

I think he's got to turn the boiler off or something like that.

Oh, Oops.

Yeah, that's why we're not. Not talking.

I don't want to say too much because then I don't want to, like.

I know. And then we have to, like, go back and talk about it again. Yeah.

I'm gonna get some orange juice.

Okay.

Call me crazy. I need to get my juice. Your juice right back.

Yeah, that's fine. And now I'm here by myself. That's what always tends to happen.

I'm back. Sorry about that.

Well, now we lost Scotty, so the.

Boiler loses pressure sometimes, so I have to just do the valve.

Got it. Yes.

I've played a bit of Diablo.

Yeah.

I'm like level 17, so I haven't played that much. What.

What characters you make?

Rogue.

Nice.

Closest to Demon Hunter.

Yeah.

But I kind of prefer the UI in free.

That's fair.

Like, it seems kind of too off to the side for me. Like your character menu sort of thing. And the. The, like the upgrade talent tree path is a bit. I know. They got rid of kill streak XP bonus.

Yes, they. They did. Why?

I enjoyed that.

Well, so you end up. What you can do is when you get to a certain level, you can craft elixirs. And if you pop that, then you just get a flat like 15 exp buff for like 30 minutes.

So because I enjoyed like going through parts of the game and seeing those enemies, like, right, I'm gonna get a really high kill streak, you know, XP bonus. And I, you know, you try to get it over a hundred and I enjoyed that. But the. The mount's nice.

Yeah.

And the attack that you do, like where you throw yourself off the mount and it like finds a barrage of arrows.

Yeah. That's pretty fun.

So can you earn any of the armor that is sold in the shop or is that all just shop exclusive?

That's all shop exclusives.

All right. Is there good end game looking armor?

I think so.

Okay.

You. It's funny because like there's on the season pass, there's the free armor that you get and then there's the page.

I haven't made a shell. The Rogue I've made is not a seasonal character. I just wanted to do the story just straight away and then do the seasonal character next. I get a chance. I was. I wasn't aware when you first put up the game, the text to speech thing is automatically.

I hate that it's on automatically. It throws every time.

I was like the. Did I. Did I get some weird knockoff version of it?

I know, I know. I did the same thing. Yeah.

So I got it for really cheap. I got it for like silly cheap.

Yeah. Good.

I. I got it from curries for like 20 quid.

Yeah. I'm back.

You're back.

And we're back. I would. I mean, it's. It's your prerogative. I would make a seasonal character just because there's. There's a lot of things that you can kind of like, interact with and. And there's. There's a seasonal quest that gives you rewards, and then there's all like the. Because there's the battle passes. Like, there's. There's stuff that you can pay for that you get. Like, there's the armor, cosmetics, the transmog stuff, but there's also like, you get these. I think they're called like, smoldering ashes that you can dump into, like, increasing, like, drop chance for legendaries at the end of, like, dungeons. And you just get a flat, like, huge XP buff for killing enemies. And so it's like the. And whatever progress you make in like the seasonal realm is carried through with other seasonal characters. So what I mean by that is, like, the first time you go through, you have to discover the whole map. Like, you have to reveal the fog of war, but there's also these Lilith statues that are scattered throughout the area. And if you. You find all of those because each one gives you like, plus two permanently to strength or plus two permanently to decks and intellect. And so you want to find all of those. And so finding them carries through. I mean, ultimately on from. If you do it on the Eternal Realm, it carries the seasonal as well. It's just. It's. Playing a seasonal character is like in your. Your best interest in the season early enough on that you can still kind of catch up with all that stuff and not be set back. So. But yeah, we can talk about this much. Anyway, now that we're all returned, I.

We leave off.

Oh, I was just gonna say the. The. God, I already forgot the name of the. The Nightmare Raid.

Root of Nightmares. Root of Nightmares.

Ron has probably one of the worst traversal sections of all time. I cannot stand the getting the light and dark buff and waiting for this pulse of energy to not kill you.

I'm extremely efficient and quick with jumping puzzles, so I will blast through it. But that also does mean my teammates are fucked.

Right? And that's. That's one of those, like, if I.

Don'T have a problem with it personally, but everyone else in the raid does, so.

Right. And that's. That's one of those words like you want everyone to get through it together. Yeah, because it eventually, like, you get to that point where it's a bottleneck where you can't progress until everyone gets to the door and it's like, it feels like when they made that, they assumed everyone was just gonna strand Spider man their way through. And it's like, I. Yeah, it's. So that's like, in terms of like the echelon of like, the worst transition. That one like, is definitely, like, takes the cake and then probably Ghost of the Deep is right behind it just because it's so long and eventually it's like, it drags on. But this, I would say is like the perfect amount of like. Because the exploration, the skybox, everything's cool, the music's great.

I think my experience in a transition raid encounter is probably vog.

How, like, because people are.

People are dumb. And apparently Gorgons are hard.

Yeah. All right. Knew you were going to say Gorgons. I'm like, yeah, it also see to that because there are times where people like you, no matter how many times you say do not double jump, you.

Hear someone double jump. I was doing carries and I'm. I'm a patient person and I'm nice and sure. This person wanted to do the whole raid. So they were adamant, they didn't want to leave. They had to do Gorgons.

Right.

We were at Gorgon's for two hours.

Yep. That's fair.

Two hours.

Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. They wanted to.

The whole raid. They didn't want to leave. They wanted to do the whole rate, which I, you know, I get this was in D1 though, right? But that means. And they were hunter. So you can sit there and crouch. Go invis.

Right.

So to compare the gimmicky traversal section, if we compare like the doors section in Vespers to other virtual sections and dungeons. I really wish more dungeons. And this is going to be a crazy thing to say coming from me, because I always shit on this dungeon. I wish that there were more gimmick encounters, like grasp of Avarice's sparrow part. Like, I wish they did more, like, fun shit instead of like.

So more sparrow encounters and less push the servitor into a fucking vacuum to watch it hit a thing, explode, and do that another five times. God, I hate that encounter. If that encounter wasn't there, grass would be such a good dungeon. I mean, it's a good dungeon, but it would be so much better if that encounter was just go and it was something different or. Yeah, yeah.

I just. I wish. I mean, I don't mind this, like, door switches thing. It's kind of cool. It's kind of fun.

I mean, it doesn't take too long, does it?

It doesn't take too long. I just wish there was more stuff that was just like goofy fun, like the Sparrow part. Like, I want more like really creative like sections that are just like fun.

You know, actually saying something positive about Grasp of apples.

I am. I know. It's like the one thing I like about grasp is the music.

That part music. Yeah, that's fair. The music.

The music is from Destiny. One that doesn't even know the one good part where it's like, oh, it's the traveler themes playing. That's.

No, the best music in it is the. Is the boss music.

Yeah. The kind of piratey themed. I agree that that music's pretty badass.

Or is not. Listen to the Grasp of Avarice ost. Initially, no, I haven't.

Because I played it and then I never wanted to.

I'll put it on for you after. I'll put it on for you.

I. I think it. Yeah, I mean, I agree with you, Scotty. I wish more dungeons had like non traditional encounters like that because I think people like. People like the sparrow race part because people liked the. What's the other raid that had the.

Scourge of the past.

Yes. Yeah.

Race. So fun. That's like one of the most fun encounters in.

Right. Not every raid needs to be a boss or a overly complex like swap.

Swap Gambit out for Gambit racing.

Yeah, something different. But yeah, it's like some of those like kind of clever, neat, engaging things were like. Why'd they do this?

Imagine. Imagine it's Gambit. Right. But instead of invading. Instead of invading, it randomly select. When you get to half of your bank full, it randomly selects two people and they get put in a SRL course.

Yeah.

And then whoever wins, they get more moats and the loser has less moats.

Oh, or. Or you do something fun where like you get on. Yeah. You.

You invade or you do something fun and you bring back srl.

You don't. You don't have to play Gambit. That'd be the fun thing. No, but. Or like you would. As you invade, you get on a sparrow and you can dash and like you don't have any weapons, but you can. You can try to run people. Why your sparrow. Yeah, but like you can steal a big.

There's no. There's no racing. We need. We need the racing part just something.

Yeah, that's fair. But so Gambit racing to your. To your point though, like. Yeah, I just wish there was more. Yeah.

More fun stuff.

They do dual destiny, but instead of fighting each other in the Last part. It's a sparrow race, right?

Okay, not everything has to be a sparrow race.

No, there are people who want srl. This is what they want. This is what they want.

Give the people what they want. I just. I don't know. Like, if they're. If you're going to do like, an intermediary transitional encounter, I'd like to see just, like, really creative, fun stuff.

Sparrow.

Otherwise, what's the point, you know?

I mean, look, they did change the speed of always on time, so it clearly means that you back srm.

Oh, gosh.

That's what the new take on storytelling is for Apollo. It's just srl.

It's just SRL story.

It's like the. It's like the NASCAR Formula one games campaign, right?

Oh, my God.

We do a race. You know, the guy who's supposed to win just gets angry and you have, like, a bit of dialogue with him, and then it's just another race with a new person.

Brilliant.

You know, this going back to Vespers.

This.

This could have been a cool opportunity for a sparrow section where it's like, oh, in space, like, a new, like, part of core is going to explode and you have to escape.

And space station, there's like, jumps over.

Like, gaps, jumping, like, through, like, a void of space where if you don't clear the jump, like, you're just gonna fall and die into, like, nothingness. Like, that would be awesome and way cool. Bring back more sparrow racing type stuff.

What do we think of the armor?

Armor's cool. It's definitely.

I haven't gotten all of it.

I think the Titans lost. Titans lost.

I like that. It's always like a competition, but. Yeah, I don't disagree.

I don't think it's a competition. I'm just saying that Titans lost this time around with the armor set. Like, oh, you have to do the quest thing for the mark because it's cool and glowy. It's like, yeah, I really want a towel wrapped around me that looks like a nightclub. Okay.

True.

But yeah, next time I do it, I'll definitely be doing it on my Hunter and Warlock because the armor for it is much better for them.

Yeah, I.

I like the. At least I don't know what the other ones are called, but the Hunter armor set is called, like, the Spacewalk grass or something.

Like.

That's cool. Little reference to the. The. You know what? But you know what? We talked about the second encounter a little bit and binary stuff. Should we talk about boss shooting the number? Yeah. So we can talk about.

How many damage phases did it take for your team the first time you did it?

Damn. Too long. Probably four or five.

So we. We didn't have a warlock. It was two hunters and I was on my Titan, so. And we didn't get it done at that evening. So I was like, right, that's it. I got up the next day and went on my warlock immediate and just ran like a support build with healing grenades and that.

Yeah, that's. I. I always just do that. I swapped to.

So good for the rest of the encounter, but the damage phase, because I was having to run support on my Titan. Well, I say support, not really, but I wasn't running Thunder Crash, which is what most people were running, so. So it wasn't. But yeah, it's just. All right.

So now that we're on the boss, I gotta talk about. I was talking to Rob a little bit about this before, but I kind of hate this boss fight, like, a lot. Like, I really like this dungeon right up until the boss fight. The boss fight is where everything gets screwy for me.

I enjoy it. But they shouldn't have made you two damage rotations. Yeah, well, that's shield damage rotations.

Why repeat that same thing?

Yeah.

Twice, only to get to damage to break twice.

We. We five. We five phased him, right? The first time we did it, we didn't know what we. We didn't know what was meta for it. We just five phased it and we weren't in the mood for like, damage testing. We just wanted it to get it overdone.

Right.

And I was getting. So I was saying the piss. I was getting so sick because I was doing suppressor just because that's what I happen to be like, right. Be doing. By the end, I was so sick of hearing the rad sound tick up. Yeah. Oh, look, I'm getting radiation poisoning.

Look, he's backpedaling. Oh, look, he teleported to where I was because apparently he can backpedal and teleport, but what have you.

Did you have it where the. Where the nuclear core drops off the map when. When you're in the boss fight?

Not in the boss fight, fortunately.

But I did have a part where.

I take the nuclear core to deposit it and the prompt doesn't show up and it won't let me deposit the core for unknown reasons. And then we all wipe and then we get to rewind everything over again.

That's why I posted that meme of. Of what? You know, you said, I'll put post the Screenshots. And I was like, yep. Yes.

Yeah.

Like, we had it where it just fell off the map.

I love physics.

Yeah. I was like, can they just have it? So it just doesn't do that.

Right. I don't know. I just. The repeating of the damage, like, breaking the shield is just too repetitive. It's just way too long.

I think it's fun, but they need to even make it so the attack that happens from, like, the, you know, like, the electricity is either not random or they reduce his health. Solo in that solo with that boss.

Oh, hell no.

Yeah, I'm not.

Yeah, it's got. I'm cool with, like, a. Like a difficult damage phase. I think that's really.

Oh, yeah.

Neat. It's a cool concept. I just wish it didn't take so long to get to the only hard part of the encounter. Like, everything else is like.

I wish for Nezarec, like, where he just runs around like an absolute crackhead in damage, swinging at you, and you've just got to run around the arena shooting at him. But for that, it's. It feels too unfair, especially for solo players. Like, he's got so much health. He. Does he have more health than Nezarec?

Probably.

He's got about. I want to say probably 15 mil, maybe.

Isn't that caretaker level? Caretaker. Caretaker 16.

Huh.

Wow. Yeah, it's hard to. It's hard to compare those, though, because they feel like it's a completely different advantage.

Yeah, no, no, I. I get that.

But it's also six people versus three people.

Yeah, but that's what I mean. It's six versus three people. So if they have the same amount of health. Yeah, Especially if I. I do not want to. I have no interest in soloing that dungeon at all. Yeah, no.

It would be a pain in the ass. You would die to something stupid.

Yeah.

And then you'd want to kill yourself after because you died because the core rolled off the map, the arena. And then you're like, okay, well, it was fun.

Like, it was hectic fun and we were having a laugh doing it, but it does. Yeah, it was fun.

It was fun until it just started again. Until it wasn't like, it's just like, why are we.

We're still dialogue D. One dialogue. It was fun. Until it wasn't.

Yeah, Well, I think it's just too repetitive.

Yeah. I think. I think you. You. You could shave off and only have to do one shield, like, event where it's like, okay.

Make the damage attacks area effect in the arena less Random, right? Or you reduce his health.

Yeah, make it. Make it so it's more obviously, like, telegraphed and. Because what ends up happening is, like, I look like I saw kind of what damage strats people were using. And it's like, we always just. I put a well on top of that propane tank, so you're kind of. You just avoid the lightning. And it's like, it's obviously not what they intended, but it's like, it's not. It's not fun to engage with the lightning coming down on the platform, like, at all. And I'm reading something on Reddit where someone kind of pointed out where it's like, it's. It's getting to the point where it's like, almost like a sensory overload. Like, it's not difficult to. To balance all of these things, but it's just so much going on that it, like, it's almost like it, like, aesthetically kind of detracts you from wanting to engage with it because it's just like you. You just. It's so much. And it's like, it's. It's like.

I mean, it was the first time I'd done it, so it was sort of like I hadn't sort of figured out, but it was trying to tell the animation of it indicating that it's about to affect that area versus actually affecting that area.

Right.

And yeah, I was having. There were points where I was having to jump on, you know, the weird platform that you come out of from the back of the point and it was turning back. I was just jumping there for, like, a few seconds and then jumping back on. Or. Or when you open the room with the nuclear core, once it had opened again, I'd just sit in the doorway and shoot Matrix. But yeah.

Yeah, it's.

It didn't help. We didn't have any healing of any kind. But.

No, I. I don't know. I. I like the idea of, like, the puppets and everything in that phase, though. I think it's kind of cool, like, having to, like, juggle your attention between the. The puppets and the boss and getting the core and timing that right was. Is. Is neat. I just. I don't know. Like, the rest of the encounter, that's the only part that's, like, challenging. And the rest of it. The rest of that, like, encounter is not hard, I would say.

No.

And so it's just so tedious to get to the only hard part and then fuck up and then be like, okay, great. Oops. Took 20 minutes to get to the one hard part, make a mistake, and then have to reach. Do the whole thing over again.

Yeah, I, I don't know.

Change the voice line. Did she have to say the same thing every time that thing is retreated stacks?

Yeah, yeah, it's retreated to the lower stacks. That is really funny. We did get kicked out of that single, guys. I think he's in the lowest stacks.

I'm not sure, though, that's what we were doing too.

I, I, Yeah, I, I don't know. It's. It's fine until it's like, not. There's just.

Again.

I'm not talking about the dialogue. I'm talking about just, like, the encounter as a whole. Like.

I know, I know.

Like, the, I also think I find that the, the radiation guys are just really obnoxious because they, it feels like they're kind of meant to just kind of walk up and down, like, the hallway, but sometimes they'll hardcore follow you and you can't outrun them, and you just get 10 stacks and die. And you're like, I didn't like why.

I love them just running at you. They basically all they do is run at you and give you cancer. That's basically.

Well, they themselves are cancer. No, that's, that's bad. It's just, they're, they're just so, like, tedious and frustrating to fight against. And, like, I also wish that when you have the scanner debuff, it was a little more quick to, like, the, the range and, like, it was a little more quick to tell you which one is the one that you have to destroy. Yeah, like, I get why they, the. Why you can't just, like, flat out, like, try to kill all of them. And if you do it, like, shaves off the time and, like, you know, basically detonates. Like, that's the only part that's kind of, like, tedious and frustrating is like, there's a lot going on in that room. And trying to grab the scanner buff and find which one is the one to kill is like, I wish it was a little more quick because it's, it, it. That timer sometimes can be a little tight, and it just, it's a little, like, frustrating. And yet, like, there's, there's a lot of reasons why I have no desire to ever do that dungeon solo. And, like, part of that is, like, the radiation guys and just trying to grab the scanner buff and, like, it just, it sucks.

Yeah, I'm never doing that.

But it's, it, like, thematically, it's really Cool. Like, the. The. The boss arena is neat. Like, the design of it is, like, really pretty. It's just. Yeah, that. That fight, like, we've gotten it down to like, a very comfortable two phase when we do it now where, like, it. It doesn't feel too tedious, but there's a few things that I would. I would definitely fix about the dungeon, like that final boss encounter overall, because it just like, feels a little like. Yeah, maybe it should have gone a little more time in the testing phase before it came out because I think. I think some of the tediousness of it could be shaved off just a little bit. I understand it's end game and it's meant to be hard, kind of. It's just like. It's not difficult. It's annoying. And that's.

Yeah, that's.

That's where the problem.

Yeah. And that's a. That's a hard line to walk because, like, you want things to be engaging and challenging and feel rewarding. And I mean, you get two drops. You can get Icebreaker from the end of this. Like, it's a. It's a. It should be an exciting and challenging thing. And thank Christ it's not another ghost of the deep. Like, I hope we don't ever get another dorm or Moo or whatever the hell her name is. Where it's like the number of hoops you have to jump through and the number of things you have to do just to get to damage on that. And where she stands and trying to do damage on her, where she's just this tiny little floating target in the air. Like, I don't ever want a final boss like that again. And I will take this over that. It just. It feels a little tedious at times. Like, and. And this is, I think, coming off of Warlord's Ruin, which I think is probably one of the cooler final bosses, because it's like, I also like the way it's done where you have the stages kind of like going up to the top, and then the top is where you actually do damage. But if you're, like, efficient and well planned out and you've got good, like, like positioning, you can do a lot of damage even before you get to the true, like, damage phase. So, like, yeah, that's one of those where you're rewarded for really kind of like, optimizing. And it feels like. It feels like it doesn't take long between each of those, like, steps to get to the. The next damage raise, even if it's just to, like, chip them down. A little bit. So you can like, reveal more of the arena. Like, I think that, like, that's by far the most kind of like, engaging because you're fighting with the boss like the entire time versus like doing a bunch of stuff so that you can get to damage.

Like.

Like, I. I wish we had more stuff kind of like Warlords ruin where it's.

Maybe they should have made it. Depending on how many copies you killed that were running around in the lower levels, they're running around in the lower stack that you have more platforms to stand on in the up area. Yeah, the. On. So the light, the lightning or whatever it is still affects them, but it does less damage.

Right.

Or something. I. I don't know.

Yeah, yeah. Where it's like, yeah, you're incentivized to kind of maybe seek out like, instead of trying. Because once. Once you.

Once you've killed the. The four in the first room and then the occasional one that runs in the rooms where you find the nuclear. You know, where you find the nuclear core off of one of the other copies, you don't really kill that many of them because you don't need to.

Right.

So, yeah, maybe if they did it that way.

Yeah, that's. That's. That's an interesting idea. And like.

Because then it doesn't detract from the. The how hard it is because you then still have to kill something. Yes, I know it's killing something, but. And making the game easier. But that's sort of, you know, that's how it should be.

Right. Because then there's a. There's a balance between trying to like, speed through it versus, like kind of setting yourself up for more success so that you can maybe have a more efficient damage phase because you can comfortably stand on more platforms versus, like. Right. Yeah. So I think that that's great. And. And I wish there was more kind of like. I don't want to say like, oh, like. Because it'd be really easy to go. The more clones you kill, like maybe get stacks of, like you do more damage to the boss or something like that. But then it's like, no, because then you're optimizing, like you just kill all of them and then. Then you go to damage, you can get more bang for your buck. But if it was like, oh, if we kill two or three more of these clones, it makes damage way more easy because we can comfortably stand on these platforms and I can be more consistent with my headshots. Right. And like, something like that. So yeah, no, I. I that. That's a cool idea. Right. Where there's. There's sort of a.

An incentive.

An incentive. Thank you. To. To kind of engage with a type of mechanic a little bit more.

You can just ignore them. Early on when you first do it, when we were doing it blind, we was like, oh my God, we've got to kill them all.

Right.

Because you get, you know, rad poisoning. It's like. Well, you don't need to because they sort of don't come in the room.

Right.

Some of them do when you go into like the main rooms, but some of them don't. It was really weird. But yeah, like, I mean overall I think it's a lot better dungeon than Ghost and I enjoy the setting more than Warlords out of the more recent. Done. You know, the more recent dungeons. Okay.

But I really like the skybox.

Yeah, the Skybox is very good.

Definitely incredible.

And the. The like the Clovis Bray facility architecture is always very nice. I mean. All right. Albeit most of it is destroyed.

Well I think that's cool because I mean if it was just more like the same Clovis architecture would be kind of boring. But the fact that I like a.

Destroyer, like all the pokeball looking walls.

Yeah.

But yeah, no, I. It is nice to see it again. I did see people complaining that it was a reskin. It's like, oh.

I like seeing clothes stuff.

Yeah. I know they're just talking out their ass. But it was nice to see the environments again. But I think it's a lot better. And I. It's very clear that since I'm not advocating for them to make more confusing monetization, but it's very evident that that there is more effort put into these dungeons, more money put into them now that they have, you know, the dungeon key.

Yeah.

Compared to when dungeons weren't tied to that. That's fairly how they are going into the next content year when we don't have dungeon keys. But they are still paid, aren't they? They're basically like season. I don't know.

Sure.

Yeah.

Just make better dungeon armor. I think a lot of it's kind of crap.

Yeah.

I like the Warlord stuff, man. I.

The Warlord Titan helmet is fine. I think the rest of it is kind of eh.

I like the hunter cloak with the ice picks.

Yeah. I don't know. It's. Some of it. Some of it's been really hit and miss.

Yeah.

I think for dungeons more so than Right. I know people complain about the raid armor being really weird. Like it being really weird, but at least it looks like it's not bland. It's still odd looking, but it's not.

Right.

Bland. Like the Salvation's Edge armor is weird.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. I don't know. Raid armor should be like the coolest looking stuff. And sometimes it's so bizarre and it's like what? Like Root of Nightmares is kind of funky, but it also like, works.

Kind of end up looking like a mosquito.

Yeah. It's just. Yeah. I. It. It bothered me more in.

Salvation's Edge.

No.

So.

Well, Salvation's Edge. I'm trying to think which dungeon. Oh, Disparity. Where you had. What was the weapon Foundry or Duality. I'm sorry? Duality. Where you had like. Okay, what was it?

Okay.

Yeah. Hockey armor, which didn't at all make sense for like that because it was.

Probably supposed to be in Eververse, but.

Right, exactly. And then they just used it for that armor and it's like. It doesn't like. I like when the armor. These kind of matches the weapons. Like they do that with Warlord's Ruin. They definitely do that here. Rooted Nightmares does a pretty good job. But there's. There's been a couple dungeons where it's like. I mean, Grasp of Avarice is. Is kind of weird because you have like the Thorn Armor, which again, maybe was also supposed to be an Eververse thing.

I don't like it. I don't like it. I think that was quite. Yeah. Yeah, it's.

It's quite meh. And then it feels like really all right.

For me. It feels like you can't really pair it with much other armor.

Right, Agreed. Yeah. Because it's. It's so spiky that it's hard to like, mix and match. Because that's always. Yeah, that's always kind of the fun. Like, you know, the real end game of this game is. Is that your.

Your drip fashion.

And it's like, it's hard to. I. I like drip. Trying to mix and match different, like, eras of armor to make it, like, look cool. And it's hard to do that with the Thorn armor. I completely agree. Trying to think some of the other dungeons that we've had.

All dungeons had exclusive armor.

Right.

I mean, Fire of the Watcher had the cowboy stuff.

Yeah.

Which was Tex Mechanica.

Right. And that. That worked because it was all cowboy themed. Although it was a weird. Ghost of the Deep was the other weird one where you had. You had the. That. That armor is arguably pretty awesome and.

It'S very good armor.

Maybe actually kind of matches with the Thorn armor somewhat. But then the weapons are these weird, like, completely. Yeah. Where they don't.

Like, submarine, like.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

And they don't match at all. And that's weird. And I get the. I get the kind of. The point of that, because, like, here you are kind of traversing down into the deep, but. And ultimately, the armor should sort of be reflective of the hive, but then the. The weapons kind of don't. So, like, I. I think duality and. And Ghosts of the Deep are two examples where it's, like, really bizarre and they don't match it off.

I think I said it last week, but I really think Bungie should focus less on making Eververse armor sets. And if they want to sell cosmetics ornaments, they should sell weapon ornaments, make more of them, and put more armor in the game.

Right.

Because you don't really see, you know, when you're fighting, you don't. You don't see your armor.

Yeah, Yeah. I. I kind of. Like, what was the. What was the. The kinetic shotgun from Forsaken? The. The one that kind of came out that was kind of the big thing in PvP.

Dust rock blue.

Dust Rock Blue that had a really cool ornament where it added kind of like the fallen spikes. And, like, I thought, like. Yeah, I agree. I think, as much as I hate.

To say, like, they must. They moved away. Like, what. Like, what. Is it because of sunsetting?

I think so, yeah. Because all those. All those weapons, like, you paid for those ornaments, and then they're gone. You can't use them anymore.

But we don't have sunsetting now, so why.

Right. So now's the time.

But they should make it. So it's just a universal ornament for a hand cannon or a scout at that point.

Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah.

Is what I mean. Because you see. All right, then people would start slapping it on anything. But, like, if you're making universal, you know, like, armor for characters, but you don't see them, like, I'm not advocating for more monetization. I'm just saying I think it would do better. Like, look at all other games at the minute where you. All right, they sell skins, but.

Right.

They sell, like. I mean, look at CS Go or.

Right.

Or. Or Valorant. Now, Overwatch does that. They sell weapon skins as well as skins for your characters.

Right.

Like, I think there's. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe they've done folk. They've probably done focus testing for it, but Right. I still think that they should maybe try out weapons more than armor and just put more armor, cool looking armor into the game.

Yeah, I agree. I'm. It definitely is frustrating when you see some of the coolest.

Like, I get why crossovers aren't free, right? I get like, I don't agree, like it's annoying, but I get why, like I'm not, you know.

Right.

But. And I'm glad. I'm kind of glad that a lot of the Eververse armor has been crossover stuff because then it feels like, okay, they haven't made this Kawama set for this faction or you know, destination that could have been somewhere in the game. But no, they put it in Eververse. Right. However, this season they did make the play stuff, didn't they?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was trying to think of what it looked like, but yes, you are correct.

Alright, so that about closes it out for today's episode. As always, thank you guys for hopping on and chatting with me. And thank you to our wonderful audience for listening to this episode. Wherever you're streaming it from. Be it Spotify, Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, whatever. Please be sure to leave us a review if you like the show. If you don't like the show, yeah, you can still leave a review, but I'll be sad about it. Check out our YouTube channel as well. We upload some videos over there, both podcast episodes and gameplay videos. And on Twitch we also stream the live show every now and then. And we also stream gameplay as well. I've been playing the closed Alpha of Destiny Rising quite a bit on YouTube and Twitch, so be sure to check that out. If you want to support the show, please check the episode description. There is a link to give us a tip as well as a link to get a free trial of Streamlabs Pro. If you use our link, we'll get a small cut of that. So thank you guys so much for hopping on and chatting and we will see you guys next episode.

You can put this voice recording away and go on with your life because you and I both know you'd have me yapping and Dr. Your ear for the rest of your days.

Want to further the discussion? Get in touch with us at any.

Of our Twitter handles, all of which.

Can be found at our podcast description.