Episode 52 – Destiny 2: Worst Skins & Edge of Fate Breakdown

Foreign.

Game is saved for heaven. The game is yours to play now.

The light provides. This is Eventide Radio. Hello and welcome back to Eventide Radio. This is a fan made Destiny podcast where we have roundtable discussions about a variety of different topics and concerning the popular video game franchise at its core. This shows by having in depth discussions about the game from a variety of different perspectives. I'm your host Scotty with me and my co hosts Rob and Matador and today we're finally coming back. We've kind of been on a little mini hiatus. Last episode, what did we do? Probably Heresy. Act One I think was the last time we, we hopped on and chatted. So we've. It's been a minute since we've hopped on the mic a little bit, but there's been a lot going on so we thought it was high time to get back on and start talking about the Edge of Fate and Renegades Reveal. That just happened a couple days ago. So pretty wild stuff to say the least. We'll get into it. But before we get started and dive into all of the crazy stuff that they threw at us the other day, Rob, what he been up to this week in Destiny, right.

Of the Nine came out so played that a bit.

What?

Oh, Heavy Metal came out yesterday. We're recording this on Saturday by the way. So Heavy Metal came out yesterday, played that, had fun. We'll talk about that. As far as this week goes, not much, but kind of last week I did a metric crap ton of stuff and sort of was. Was kind of waiting for stuff to kind of flow out and I think this weekend I'm going to be like, I have a buddy who was. Was kind of interested because he and his wife have never actually done Spire the Watcher at the the Raids or the Dungeon. So like this is a good opportunity to do it so.

Oh totally.

Yeah.

Now's the time.

Been kind of. I got, I, I did kind of a heavy surge like the last two or three weeks to like finish out the Heretic title and did the chess puzzle and a bunch of that other stuff which we'll talk about at a later time. So I was like, I did a bunch of Destiny stuff. I sort of took a break because the new season for Diablo came out. So I've been playing that quite a bit. And I also played the Marathon Alpha and I played the Arc Raiders Beta, whatever the hell that it was like a tech demo thing.

Imagine being in America and having access to that.

I know. Even though Embark is what like a Swedish company, but That's. And beside the point. So I've actually been trying a bunch of other games. Not like soul searching and looking for another game to play, but just sort of like this was like a weird couple weeks of like, there was a bunch of alphas and stuff that all sort of released. And so now that that's over, I'm actually kind of irking and leeching back into Destiny, especially after we had the reveal. So that's what I've been doing.

Yeah, totally. I mean, like you said, now's the time to play, to take people through new dungeons and it's also a great time to look at other games and see what other cool shit's coming up. Map, what are you up to this week?

So I haven't actually played in. In a fair bit. So, yeah, I am. I have. I've fallen behind on that. I've been. Obviously I did the story stuff, but I've been very busy. What I've been doing. I've been playing a lot of stadium on Overwatch.

Oh, yeah? How is that?

It's very fun. It feels like Overwatch 2, a sequel.

Been playing Overwatch, it feels.

And, and, And I'm gonna throw shade at a game here. So I'm very sorry, Scotty, but after playing Marvel Rivals for a bit, then going back to Overwatch, oh, my God, Marvel Rivals is so unpolished and an absolute mess of a game. So that's very funny.

I have some opinions about Marvel Rivals too, but I like Scotty, so I.

Won'T say them, but, but yeah, so I. Then I've been playing Lethal League Blaze. Yes. When I have a little bit of time here and there, which is a fun game. I. I enjoy. But then recently I did play some PvP. I did play some Crucible, and then I was playing a lot of heavy metal over the past few days. So that's been. That's been good.

Cool.

So I'm cool. I watched the reveal and I, you know, as I. As I must or I'd be fired now. I'm joking. And it was. Yeah, it was interesting. It did suck me back into Destiny a bit. I think obviously that is there. Their goal of those things. But, yeah, that's what I've been doing.

Cool, cool, cool. I understand, I understand the Marvel Rival slander.

The game's too easy. I'm sorry, but the game's too easy.

That's why I like it.

I just, I play Wanda and then.

I don't have to aim anything.

You can.

I play, quote unquote, Difficult characters. And you can get to, like, the Celestial. Like, the people playing the game are children who have never played another game other than, like, my friend Peppa Pig or something. I don't know. It is a game.

Yeah.

I played Bluey game.

To be fair. I only played Marvel Rivals, like, one or two nights. But I just. For laughs, I was like, all right, I want to play the Punisher. And I went like, 39 and O in one match. And I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, I think I'm good.

Like, there are confirmed. I think you can get put in. I'm not saying. I'm not saying this happened to you. You can get put into botmas. Yeah. In quick play. Yeah. You can get thrown into those. But if the game has that many players, it shouldn't put. That shouldn't be a thing.

I agree.

But maybe they were the Peppa Pig kids and they like. That would explain why they couldn't aim for nothing. So.

But no, I. I don't. But. But yeah, I.

Fair enough. As far as what I've been up to this weekend. Destiny. I've been not really playing destiny either, to be honest. I just got back. I know. I just got back from Milwaukee because there was a regional championships for Pokemon, the trading card game. So the season for that is kind of, like, coming to a close. So I was playing a shitload of Pokemon.

I have to talk to you about that after we finish here. I've been Pokemoning recently.

You actually participate in tournaments?

Yeah, yeah. That's what I was there for.

Okay.

I don't know if you, like, go as, like, an observer. You actually play?

No. Yeah, I was competing. It was. How'd you do? It was a good time. Pretty bad. All of us did. Most. All of us. There was probably, like. I don't know, we'll say, like 10 of us, maybe, in our group.

Wow.

And I think only one of us made it to day two. So all around, it was pretty unfortunate showing for the squad, but it was fun. It was a good time. It always is. But anyways, let's dive into Edge of Edgers of Fate. Lots of crazy stuff.

Yes.

Where do I even start?

So did you guys.

I guess, first question. Did you guys watch the live stream or did you watch, like, a recap episode?

I watched the live stream.

Okay.

Yes.

Gotcha. Yeah, I. This always sort of seems to happen. The. The timing was serendipitous. I was at work, and I had an hour opening exactly during the time. And so. And this happened during the. The final shape like the. The big reveal when we found out we were getting prismatic and stuff like that, where I was able to book one of the conference rooms that no one ever really like uses because it was. It's empty. And I went in there and. And watch the stream. I was actually working. I had some, like, documents that I was reviewing, so it was kind of like, you know, but let's be honest, those documents took longer to review than they probably needed to because my eyes were glued elsewhere. So, yes, I did watch it live hidden in a. In a conference room at work.

So, yeah. Okay. So you guys got to see the whole thing, their whole spiel.

Yep.

Everything that. All the, you know, verbiage that they were using and. Okay, cool.

So that helps all the dark matter taste of that sort of thing.

Yeah. So I'm not going to go through and give a comprehensive recap because I'm assuming if you are listening to this episode, you have already seen the reveal or whatever, and you probably don't want to hear me regurgitate everything that they've already revealed. So I'm not going to do, like a comprehensive deep dive recap here, but we're going to be sharing our opinions on everything. So I think the first thing to dive into was their cinematic Edge of Fate reveal trailer with the Emissary and this strange new character that just looks like, I don't know, your local IT guy. And Kepler, which is the new destination. What did you guys think of that cinematic reveal trailer? What do you guys think of this new setting and the potential narrative that they are unfolding before us?

It's very refreshing.

Yes.

How so?

It's not. Well, I mean, there are Fallen and Vex there, but it's not immediately, oh, it's, you know, Hive or it's Cabal or, you know, the environment is nicely refreshing, especially after having the nostalgia of the Pale Heart.

Yeah.

Now having a completely new sort of place to frolic and play.

For sure. For sure. It kind of reminds me there's a lot of elements in Kepler that kind of feel very IO.

Yes.

Almost.

Yeah, I see that.

I'm sure that's intentional, honestly, given IO's narrative importance.

Yes.

But, yeah, it seems cool. It's kind of a mix of. It's definitely. It feels like a mix of IO and What's it called? Neptune. Neomuno. A little bit kind of interesting. Like that used with a little bit of that prophecy element as well.

Yeah.

What do you guys think of the Emissary returning as would, I can assume, is the Main character of this new expansion.

Yeah, yeah.

Sorry.

I mean. No, no, you go. You go.

No, I was just gonna say, like, I think. I think the big question that everyone had was, like, all right, where do we go after. After we kill the Witness? Right. Like, there definitely is kind of this idea of, like, this is. This is all we've known for the last 10 years.

Right?

We're sort of like, it's been converging to this. So it was like, all right, you know what's gonna be interesting storyline. And, you know, I. I think it makes sense. The Nine, who have sort of been independent from the Traveler, which is kind of an interesting concept in and of itself. So to find out that they're kind of the next, like, not necessarily baddie, but conflict, I think makes it interesting. And. And to see that the emissary and what's her name, Orin, is, like, originally, like, she was a titan.

The Drifters. Xgf.

Yeah.

So this is gonna be. This is gonna be interesting drama that.

We have here for sure. So, no, I'm. I'm. I'm kind of intrigued because it. It seems like that's kind of a, you know, if she breaks free and she's got insight or information about, you know, maybe mischievous plans or how to stop them and, you know, because they've. They've literally been here since day one, the Nine, in terms of, like, plot elements and all the way back to, like, kind of original, like, vanilla story stuff. Right? So it's like, yeah, this zur has been part of Destiny as long as Destiny's been a thing. So, like.

Yeah, yeah, I'm.

I'm. I'm intrigued. And to your previous question, too, I think the location, it's familiar, but also different. And they have kind of the weird elements of, like, you know, there's that big ship just sort of inexplicably, like, out in the middle of this, like, weird alien desert. And, like, they showed, like, the train where it's like some kind of weird dimensional portal. Reality shifting, where it's like. It's weird, but it also kind of feels like Destiny. So, like.

Yes.

Yeah, it looks cool. The art. The art style.

Yeah.

Looks refreshing and neat, but, like, familiar in a way where it still has that Destiny pizzazz to it.

So I'm on board.

Yeah, me too, Ma. What about you?

Yeah, I just think it's just something fresh and interesting, really. Especially now that we've, you know, stopped the Witness and just having a new thing to sort of go after, especially something that has been in the game for, you know, a long time.

For such a long time.

Yeah, for sure.

I like, just as a general note on kind of their entire reveal, I like how much. I feel like they're keeping close to the chest this time around. I feel like they didn't reveal too much. I feel like they revealed just enough to make me excited.

Definitely.

But even though it's coming out super, super soon in July, they didn't reveal a whole lot, which I think is very cool.

Yeah.

And I'm excited to see what little secrets they have up their sleeve because I feel like that's when destiny is at its best, is when they have those. Those surprises that catch you off guard.

Yes.

In the best way. So pretty cool stuff. I am. I'm intrigued. They are also overhauling a lot of.

A lot of stuff. Yes.

So I guess if I'm not mistaken, and correct me if I'm wrong, I wasn't there live, but I was kind of like clicking through afterwards. The Director no longer exists and it's being replaced by something called the Portal.

No. So the Director. The Director will still be there. It's just in that Worlds tab that will take you to the Director. What kind of confuses me is what does going to orbit look like? Because that's, you know, that's like. That's such a. An identity part of Destiny of, like, that, oh, let's all. Let's all meet in orbit and it's like, I guess. I guess you still could go to orbit. But does that, like, snap you to the portal?

I don't think so. I think it'll just replace, like, the open Director button. We'll just say, like, open portal.

Yeah, I think you're probably right. But, yeah, I'm intrigued. I don't.

Yeah, it seems cool.

I don't hate the interface. I think if you are someone who is coming in from, like, at a later point and might be a little confused, I think this is a great way just to get people in and sort of avoids the analysis paralysis, where you're like, you spend so much time trying to decide what you want to do that it's like, oh, I don't even feel like doing it anymore. Whereas it's just like, solo ops done, Crucible ops done. I'm just gonna jump into a PVP match. Doesn't matter what. I'm just going to jump in. And I think that that probably solves a lot of problems that maybe, like, they may have data where people. They see people log in, sit in orbit for, like, 10 minutes and then just log off because they didn't actually know what they wanted to do. So.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, like you're saying it's not even just for new players, I don't think obviously at 100%, I think streamlines the process for new players probably as much as they can.

Right.

But even for like, you know, veteran players who've been playing for a long time, I think it should hopefully remedy that issue where, you know, that long time tried issue where people open the map, look at all of the various things and then just turn it off.

And this is something that D1 did. Well, I think it was probably during Rise of Iron that it came out was on the, on the director or when you, when you open the map at the bott, like four icons kind of like with this where it's like, oh, you can dive into Heroic Strikes, the Nightfall, the Challenge of the Elders or the. Whatever the themed Crucible matches for like that week. Right. And so you can get those loot boxes, the, the whatever the hell they were called. Right. But like it was like here, here's the, the three or four themed things for this week and they were accessible right from the directory. You didn't have to go into a bunch of sub menus. You could just go, yeah, I'm going to click that. And that looks good. And so it's like I kind of going back to that idea where it's like, here's, here's the flavors of the week of what you should do and you don't have to think about it too much. You just click on a box and start going. So I think that that's wise. And you know, I think as much as I love the director and I have like, I have that Art of Destiny book and it's kind of neat because in there they, they have quite a few pages where they talk about like iterations on the director. And I think that like when that came out, that was such a cool way to sort of present how you're going to figure out what you want to do. But we've, we've evolved so much from that in terms of like, you know, they probably didn't ever think that the game was going to get as large as it did in terms of how many different planets and things like that. Where it's like, it's probably overwhelming a lot of people. So trying to streamline it makes sense and is sort of a natural progression, I think of kind of iterating on this stuff so totally.

Yeah, I agree. I Think it's. I think it's a good. Another step in the right direction, I think. And of course, I mean we'll. Remains to be seen. Obviously none of us have actually touched the interface yet, but I agree. I think it'll look. Looks pretty cool. One thing I really want to dive into and get your. Your guys's opinion on this because I think it's interesting and I can see both positive and negative reactions to this and I'm curious to see where you guys stand. I have a feeling you guys are. Are big fans of this, but I'm curious to. To get your thoughts. Is the Armor 3.0 system. So they are revamping armor.

The.

The armor build crafting interface once again and they're expanding it. I'll say not so much a revamp as it is an expansion. So they're just basically there's. There's new stats, there's like set bonuses, which I know is something people have been asking for for a long time. Yeah. So like different tiers to the armor and whatnot. Just a bunch of new, I guess, minutiae to play with and tweak to your heart's content. How are you guys feeling about what they've shown for armor 3.0 so far?

I haven't looked in detail and thought about it that much. To be fair. I've had the same PvP armor loadout. Like the pieces of armor since arrivals, they haven't changed because of my stat distribution. Is. Is basically perfect how I want to play. So I have not. I have had no use to find armor at all.

Sure, I.

If I occasionally get something like a high stat roll that could go into like a PV, you know, for PvE, I'd vault it or something, but I don't really put much thought into it other than that, I mean my, you know, grumpy old man of oh, they're changing it. It's new. I don't want it. But I'm sure after like a few months of playing it and actually having an armor set with the new armor that they've put out, you know, in the systems, I won't care and think, yeah, this is cool, it's just the changeover. But I'm not, you know, an immature person who gets angry for no reason. And I'm aware that in a few months time it'll change. I'll have new armor, I'll have a build of some kind that I enjoy, and then it will be business as usual. But it's cool that they're Doing set bonuses.

Yeah, I agree. I think set bonuses are is the big standout.

Yeah.

Rob, what about you?

Yeah, no, I like Map. I farmed Duality Dungeon before Lightfall came out I think, and got a bunch of Artifice armor that was exactly what I wanted in skill or in in stat distribution and was also kind of flexible enough that I wanted to go fully into resilience or fully into intellect or something to kind of change it from a PvP to a PvE loadout pretty easily. I did all of that and I think I have in that time kept one additional piece of armor, but have basically dismantled every single piece of legendary armor since then because there is absolutely no point. And so I am so excited to actually start looking at armor stats again and looking at the like min maxing builds in different ways. And I think some of the changes are cool. I missed the name Like I, I, I like Intellect, Discipline and strength as like names and same with like Resilience Recovery. But I, I like that they're sort of simplifying things. Like everyone has a class stat and it's not like where it's like oh, it makes sense or it like from like a, this is just kind of a side tangent. Like it makes sense for Titans to build into strength for their barricade, but you know, naturally you're going to build into resilience anyway. Whereas like Hunters, it kind of sucks to build into mobility when you don't really get any other benefit from it other than it gives you your dodge back faster and you can technically strafe while you walk faster. But that like is kind of a, it felt like you were building into something you didn't really feel the effects of a whole lot. And so it kind of like to sort of strip those things away and make them independent of each other. Now you just have your class stat in terms of like what comes back. I think that that's a great change. I think the set bonuses are a huge thing that we've wanted for a long time. Like they experimented with it in Gambit prime and I thought that was awesome. And it sucks that they hadn't really visited it since then because it actually felt like a kind of some kind of set build that you were, you were leaning into and optimizing explicitly for that game mode. I think the only problem that you have that, that worries me is if there are so like how many different sets are we gonna get? And is there gonna be one of those where it's like, oh well, you kind of want one for this, and you want one for that. And, like, the set that you get for PvE, you're not really gonna be able to proc that much in PvP. So now you have to, like, grind for, like, are you gonna have eight different sets of armor for each character? And, you know, I'm being maybe slightly hyperbolic here. We just don't know. But then we are already struggling with vault space. And like, this is. This is going to just make things a little bit harder. And I think it's. What's going to end up happening is, like, you're going to find your couple of good items and then just sort of not want to experiment with other things because it's going to be too much of a pain to, like, commit to, like, moving over to something else. But we have to. We have to see. So that's. That's my biggest, like, concern. It's not a complaint. It's just kind of a worry when it comes to, like, the. The way that you would build into so many different types of activities. It's not like something like, I'm going to use this a lot as, like, a reference, but something like Diablo, where it's like, when you start off with the season, you basically lean into one build mostly for the entire season. You can swap over, and some people do a lot of different builds, but it's kind of a big commitment when you do that. And they only recently came out with, like, an armory where you can, like, lock in your build and actually swap all of your. Your skills and Paragon and all that stuff over to, like, a completely different build if you want to. And sort of like with how many things they're gonna. Seems like they kind of keep throwing in and adding to the complexity of build crafting. It just. It seems like it's gonna get a little bit more, like, it's not gonna be worth swapping builds because it gets a little too, like, I don't know what we just have to see. The other thing that I'm. I'm interested in to know is, are they going to go back and retroactively, like, put set bonuses into older armor? So, like, if you go back and farm duality, let's say, is there going to be, like, a new set bonus to the armor that you get in there, or is it just kind of like, new stuff moving forward? Because that would also kind of make a lot of older activities, you know, maybe worth going back because it's like, oh, duality has this new set bonus where if you get all four Pieces, you know, like you. It's something that has to do with like building into using cabal weapons or something like that. And it's like, oh, so now you have actually a reason to go back and run old raids or dungeons and maybe that's something they're going to do. Right. Kind of like what they did with, with the in weapon intrinsic perks is they, they slowly went back and added it to a bunch of like older dungeons and raids. So maybe they'll do that as the year goes on. They're like, oh, now all of a sudden go back into vog and there's a new set bonus you can get with the armor in there. So it gives you reason to run vog for the 90 millionth time. But you know, it's a, it's a good way to kind of get you to go back. And I'm not calling it like low hanging fruit, but if they, if they continue to make interesting set bonuses, then I think there's a, there's a potential there to want people to keep going back and playing old content if there's something there. So I'm all that to say I'm super into it. I'm intrigued. I love the idea that we have to get new armor now and actually care about stats and min maxing in a more interesting way. Like, I'm totally intrigued by the weapons stat and like how that will play into some stuff. So I, I'm on board. I'm excited.

Yeah, okay, that's fair. I think you made some good points and I'm glad you brought up vault space.

Yeah.

Yes, because they did confirm that we're not getting a vault space update in Edge of Fate. Which is interesting because. Because, yeah, I mean, well.

Their counter argument to that would be, well, your other armor that you've been hoarding is now irrelevant.

Right.

Please get rid of it.

So just dismantle. All right.

But yeah, in this case, I have one set of legendary armor for my warlock and everything else is exotics because I've been sort of like hoarding on to things, but ultimately, yeah, it'll free up some space. But I think a lot of players have one or two sets of artifice armor that they've been using. So this, this is not really going to solve that problem.

Like, I don't really think I have legendary armor in my vault. Like for my characters, it's mostly just guns.

Yeah, I, yeah, I'm, I'm looking at my vault right now. All I have for armor in my vault is exotics. Do we need to remember the exotic class item issue that has still not been resolved? Like that's, that's taking up easily 50 slots because I have it for all three characters. So like, yeah, there's, there's still a, there's still a vault problem here with all of this. That's why it's like, I'm intrigued. But the, you know, and they talked about this when they first introduced that they were doing this armor 3.0 and that they address that vault space is going to be an issue. Same with weapons. Right now that we've got tiered weapons. Like there's, there's going to need to be some, some changes there as well because I. Going back to the weapon crafting thing, I think that was a viable solution to that problem. But now that they seemingly moved away from weapon crafting, I'm not sure how they're going to address it with, with the vault space.

Yeah, I, I don't know either. And so question for you guys because I don't know if maybe I've missed if they've given an answer on this, but do we have an answer as to why vault space is not able to be consistently updated? Like why don't we have unlimited vault space kind of thing? I think like, is there like a.

Yeah, it's like a. Not some game dev reason exactly. They are able to I think do some optimizations here and there every once in a while and squeeze out like another hundred. Because I think we, what started with 300 and now we're up to 700. So it's like every couple of years they find another, okay, we can get another hundred out of, out of this. But I think it is a. I don't know if I'm not going to say it's like a PS4 Xbox One, although they maybe have come out and said that, that but it's, it has something to do with just the restrictions from like a software and networking kind.

Of, I think, isn't it to do with. It's to do with one. How they made the game like D1 like when it was launched and that isn't it when you boot up your menu, your character menu, it loads your vault at the same time, something like that, and it's linked and that's why it's like, you know, we could increase vault space, but if you wanted to go into your menu and quickly switch something over or look at something immediately, you're going to have to wait like 20 seconds for it to load. I'm not like Excusing the. We need more vault space. It's just that I believe. Is that why. And obviously it's built into over 10 years now of code. So going back in again, I'm not, I'm not a game dev, but I imagine going back in and changing that could fuck a lot of things up.

Yeah, so that's right.

It is, it is game constraint issues. It's not like they just want to limit how much vault space we have.

I mean, look, I don't. It's one of those things where what would they gain from not giving it to us?

Like, right.

Genuinely, like people go, why is it there silver in the battle pass? I could go, well, they want us to spend money on silver more. That's why, you know, money vault space. I don't. There is no reason as to why other than technical reason as to why they won't give us more of it. Like there isn't like a benefit for them not doing that, you know.

Exactly.

Sure. So just to play devil's advocate, and this is not my opinion, but just a thought that I had that maybe some other people could feel as if this is the case. I feel like maybe someone could look at armor 3.0, maybe like a more casual player look at it. Someone who doesn't like build crafting and say, are we over complicating this system beyond the point of no return?

No, I think, I think because if anything they're sort of like, you know, because there's that group of people that I played the. I've been teaching them how to raid and they've been getting more into endgame content. One of the, one of the biggest things that they. I sort of found when I first started playing with them is they never were building into resilience because they didn't really understand that if you got 100 resilience that it, it helps with damage reduction by a huge significant margin. Not as much as it was before, but now it, you know, it was. Whereas I think now if you look at that and read it as health or melee or grenade, I think it, it, if anything it simplifies things. Now we don't know if they're adding more mods. Like if you go look at like the, the screenshot that they showed, there's a few more slots and some of the interesting things that they're adding to it. And so, you know, there, there might be some more potential for build crafting. But I think if you just look at it as, oh, if I put this one on versus this one, my health goes up. I know what health means versus resilience. And like under. And again, this whole idea of, like, it's now just one continuous number. It's not like you have these discrete. Where you have to go from 80 to 90 to see a significant increase. Like, now if you get 85 or 86, you can see that it's gone up a percentage point or whatever it is, and actually feel like you're. You're building into it and it makes sense. So if anything, it's probably going to be more intuitive to the average person.

That's fair.

One thing as well, I'm hoping it's not too confusing for new players.

Yeah.

Because the game is already confusing for new players.

It is one thing I think we really need. I don't think it exists unless you guys know it does somewhere. I don't know where to find it, but we really need, like a dictionary of keywords.

Yes.

Or something. Because there are a lot of keywords that they throw in here and then they just, like, don't explain what they are. Even if you, like, hover over the word or whatever, you would think there would be a quick definition, explanation. Oh, here's what they do that. Like, looking at the screenshot, here's what Speed Booster does.

Right.

They do that a little bit in, like, in your subclass. Right. It explains what shatter is versus chill and slow, or not chill, but slow versus freeze versus Shatter. Right. So they do that a little bit, but you still don't. You still don't necessarily know what it does in the bigger context of things. So. Yeah, I agree. Like, and I think that's something that. What path of exile 2, like, that beta came out recently or early release, and I think basically you can hover over any keyword and click. And I think there's like, basically an internal wiki to the game that will tell you what exactly each of those things mean. And like Diablo 4 has that a little bit where if you have certain keywords, like vulnerable, like, there'll be like a little bar that pops up underneath that tells you what vulnerable does. But even that has problems because it's like, I. There was like a thing I was reading into where it's like, oh, if you crowd control, it's like, what constitutes crowd controlling an enemy? Like, is that stunning? Is that freezing? Does vulnerable count as crowd control? You know, it's like there's all these kind of little things that aren't necessarily clear that I think it's a problem that a lot of Games have where it's like they've made them more complicated in terms of like the potential that you can do. But then the tools never kind of follow up. And I, I agree. Destiny's had that problem for a long time. And even more so like they never tell you what Weaken does in terms of like how much of a debuff it is. Is it a 10 damage reduction or is it 50 damage reduction? And I know they kind of do that by design because I think they have said that changing the descriptions on like the, like if you look at like the, I'm looking at that Aeon Renewal Strides thing, if you read, I think the text in there is harder to change. And so if you were to say, oh, it gives you a 20% damage boost but then they decide that that's too much and they patch it out of or they, they change it to 15% it's harder to go in and change the text in the armor. I believe they have said that. And so that's why they kind of shy away from giving specific like percentages and values. Because if they change it how it actually works in the game. You have to update the text. And I think the text is the technical limitation there, interestingly enough. But I, I, I think we're at the point in the game where we've got so many different buffs and debuffs and all these little stats and things like that that it's like if you want people to really get into the min maxing and optimizing, like you have to have those numbers like you like it just feels like it's such a requirement for any kind of RPG type game where it's like if you're expecting us to want to build into things, you have to let us know what those things are. And it's unfortunate, but if you go into Dim, right, you can hover over things and read and there's like the little like community notes of like oh, this, the damage buff that you get from this is 25% even though radiant normally is 20%. You know, and so like so you can find that information. It just sucks. You have to go to like a third party source for it. But I think totally. So then I think now what you're doing is kind of separating two things, right? I think the average person is going to go and see, oh, this thing makes my health go up and my melee goes down a little bit as a result. Why don't use my melee that much? I'd rather stay alive longer. Health makes sense to Build into, I think on the upper end where you're, you are doing theory crafting and min maxing and things like that, I think you still know where your resources are. You're still going to go to dim. I know there's that comprehensive spreadsheet that people have made that has like every exotic and has the exact stats of like how they work. Like I've, I've watched some YouTubers kind of reference that, that spreadsheet somewhere that's like a super comprehensive. Like if you want a super nerd out and what, how to optimize your build, you go there instead. Right. So it's like. But I think, I think on the lower end this helps everybody because I think everyone can get on board with what health means versus like resilience and sort of even separating it of like, oh, it makes sense to build into resilience as a titan way more than it maybe does to build into mobility. Whereas like a hunter, if your build revolves around doing a bunch of dodge to get off some kind of combo, you need to build into mobility. But class item for or for class ability for Titan is resilience. But class ability for hunters mobility. So it's like separate those two, make it a class stat completely. And so I think they've, they've actually made it better, in my opinion.

Yeah.

My question is, so is health just resilience? Because I feel like the, the word is kind of misleading if that's the case. Because wouldn't it be like damage resistance as opposed to.

I think, I think resilience is being a little more homogenized across. Now. There might be like things that you can put in your like mods you can put into your armor to give you more like damage reduction. But I think, I think if you want to compare them one to one, I think health is probably closest to resilience. I know people took screenshots of what the actual description of each of the stats was at the reveal because they did that, they went over each one to kind of show what they meant and I, I got you. I think. So you're correct in that resilience is not necessarily directly health per se, but I think when, when we get that stat, like, because they said all of our armor that we currently have is going to adopt to this new system and they're going to convert everything. So my assumption is resilience is going to convert into your health stat because for all intents and purposes it still comes down to how many hits can you take before you die. Right. If you want to just simplify it down to the most fundamental.

It's interesting. The weapons stat is an interesting inclusion, right? What does that even mean?

I think it had, if I remember correctly, something with the frequency that you get special and heavy bricks, but it also helps with, like, reload speed and ready speed as well. Something like that.

Oh, and we're putting that okay, right?

Because people were kind of like, that was like the last ditch effort that people had. It's like, have mobility, do like reload and ready speed for weapons, which kind of makes sense. Right.

And kind of do away with those mods in a sense.

So we'll have to see. I think they're. I'll see if I can find some, like, screenshots.

Just to see. In the meantime, on the flip side, weapons are also getting like, a strange revamp as well with these multiple tiers that you can upgrade your weapons to, which means more perks. I'm seeing the screenshot of Giver's Blessing that they showcased the new auto rifle from Kepler. Three perks per column, which is pretty crazy. And they've also expanding the amount of stats that are actually viewable in game, which is very cool. So aim assistance, zoom, airborne effectiveness, ammo generation is even a stat. Things of that nature. Pretty cool stuff, especially for people who really like certain weapons and like to, you know, masterwork them and, you know, play with the kill tracker and see how high it goes. This is just another way to kind of like, I don't know, bling out your favorite weapons and expand them as much as possible. Seems pretty cool, but what do you guys think?

So before I. Before we go into that, I just want to say, like, I found what they.

Oh, you got the screenshots.

Well, I found like, someone just did like a tldr. So weapons is. Increases weapon reload and handling, reload speed and handling, enhances weapon damage against minor and major enemies, and provides a chance for ammo bricks to contain additional rounds. And then.

Interesting.

Increases health gain from orbs of power, reduces flinching and increases shield recharge rate and max health. So they're basically putting recovery and resilience into and resilience in the same and then classes. Reduces class ability cooldown, increases class ability energy and grants an overshield upon using the ability. So I think that's like the higher you go, grenade. Reduces grenade ability cooldowns and increases grenade damage. Oh, that's cool. Super.

So sorry, before you move on. So you get an overshield when you.

Okay, so this is. This is The. So there's. Those are the things that you get from increasing it beyond 100, right? Because now you can over, right? So that's. That's the bonus. So for class ability, you get an overshield when you. When your class stat is above 100. If your grenade stat is above 100, you increase grenade damage. Super increases damage done by super attacks, and then melee increased damage done by melee attacks. So if you can. If you do something like a nutty synth accepts build where you put like 200 into your. Your melee, you're probably just dunking on things constantly. And I think that's kind of the idea of like how you scale your character, right? If you are trying to do a pure grenade build and you're actually min. Maxing into where you have like basically no melee stat, but you have everything dunked in the grenade and then let's say you find a set bonus that gives you additional grenade damage or an extra grenade charge or something. Now you've gone full into a grenade build where you are doing monstrous amounts of damage, but you have built into that accordingly. So I think that's. That's what they're going for, right? They're trying to. This is where destiny's kind of always kind of teetered right on that edge of like, yeah, it makes sense to build into 100 recovery and 100 resilience and 100 discipline, but everyone basically does the same amount of damage. Whereas now is like, I want to do a synthoceps build where I am just wrecking things with my melee. Well, now you are building beyond that 100 stat. So now your melees are just shredding people. So I think that's. That's. That's where that comes from and I think makes sense. So.

So you're telling me I can make a worm husk build so that my worm husk helmet will not only heal me, but also give me an overshield.

Because you've built all into your class for that, right? So yeah, you can make worm husk be the most egregious, disgusting thing ever. Whether or not now they may. Now in the case of PvP, they may. They may cap it at 100, right? Because if your grenades are doing like ridiculous damage relative to everything else, then.

You just throw a fusion grenade and it. It's a small nuclear. Exactly.

So there's probably going to be some limitations. I'm sure in PvP, it's to be, you know, a fraction of the benefit that you get in PvE or something like that right there. There's going to be some. There's going to be some. Some throttling it down, I'm sure. But that's, that's kind of, that's. So that's the point of enhanced stats is like now you're not being punished for going beyond 100, but in fact you probably are supposed to if you're trying to like, let's say I'm doing a nothing manacles build because I. Or. Or a controverse, you know, where I'm dumping all of my stats into to grenade because that's the focus of my build. So it makes sense. Yeah.

Cool.

I'm excited. So. And then going back to weapons. So the new weapons are you're going to be able to upgrade tiers up to five and like get extra perks and everything. And there's new stats visible. How are you guys feeling about this new weapon update?

PvE. Good. PvP. It's one of those things where if an old gun is still better, like people will use that. I don't, you know, if there's no new 140 hand cannon that's got lightweight on it, I don't think people are going to put down rows, you know, things like that. Like I still use my frozen orbit. That is surplus snapshot that I've had since, I don't know, a very long time. And I'm probably not going to pick up another sniper unless it gets like absolutely sunset into oblivion.

Yeah. Well, I mean is this tier system going to be applicable to old weapons?

I'm guessing not.

I think they, they basically gave the equivalent and they said the right of the nine weapons that are out now, the adepts are, I think they said equival a three out of five. So it seems like there's a high ceiling and to maps point. Like there's so much in how a weapon feels that it's like it could have max range and max stability, but if it doesn't feel good, if you don't like the recoil pattern, if you don't like the way the crosshair looks when you aim down, sights on it and things like that, you're still going to have like your favorites. Like I, you know, I, I have. I've been grinding the, the new dungeon quite a bit and I found what I thought was maybe going to be the, the successor to fang of your ute for me, which is the, the new unworthy scout rifle. And I really like it. And it's got, I think technically better stats overall than fang of your Ute, but there's still something about fang of your ute that just feels a little more intuitive to me. So is it a better weapon? Yeah, it's got better stats, I think, but there's just still something about the way that weapon feels to me that, like, I'm not gonna let that thing go, even though it's a couple years old at this point. So I, I think there's. There's definitely. With the new stats, there's gonna be some hardcore power creep and it's going to be undeniable that certain weapons are going to be really good. But I think there's. There's still going to be the, the people in PvP especially, I think where that's going to make a real, like, I think you're still going to have your rose. That's going to just feel amazing because it plays exactly into your play style and things like that. So I.

That's a fair point. I mean, I mean that. That's kind of a broader issue as a whole, I think, is just how do you make new weapons meaningful so when there are so many good weapons already in existence. I think ultimately, I mean, I think it seems pretty cool though. I think it, you know, let's. It's just another way to like, for players to take ownership over their favorite weapons, I think. And I think that's cool, right? I mean, I'm sure some of the new weapons will feel cool and you'll be able to get like new perks on it. I'm curious though, how that's going to affect, like world drops and things like that and like grinding out, like trying to like get new things. Like, what are we chasing? If we can just like upgrade our tier on any given weapon and get like a bunch of perks on it, I don't know how that's going to affect the chase because that seems interesting that you can get six perks on a gun and just one given thing and not even craft it, which is interesting.

Well, no mention of crafting, so that's nice.

Yeah. Which is kind of a surprise to me at least.

I think it's just. It's just gonna replace it. I think it's gonna be like, look.

You get this replacer.

Yeah, you've got a load of perks on it, so hopefully you got one that you wanted because we already have that anyway.

Right.

But not as many.

Yeah, I think they do away with crafting. I think this is the new system as for players to get their favorite guns and like make them as Perfect as possible.

You're not.

Is it better than crafting? I don't know.

Here's the thing though. It's like at the end of the day, this is just allowing you to not have six of one weapon in your vault because you're like, oh, do I want that rewind rounds adagio1 or do I want rewind rounds with multi kill clip? Even though that doesn't really make sense, but like it. I think the only time you have truly an issue because it, you know, they show that like when you, when you master work it, it looks like, oh, you, you get additional stat bump in some of the other, well, we've already had that with adept weapons, right, where when you finish master working it, you get a nice little healthy stat bump and all the other weapon or the other other stats on that. So I don't, I don't really see anything there. Like, it looks like you can enhance the intrinsic on it now, which is kind of cool. But I think the only time where you really are going to come into problems is if you are getting a fundamental like, like the, the tier 5 weapon does more damage than, let's say a tier 3 weapon where it's like you are actually hurting yourself in PvE. Because my damage against that boss is less than everyone else's because my linear fusion rifle is only a tier three versus a tier five. And I don't think that's really what they're doing here. Like, it's, yeah, it's got more perks on it and, but you're not fundamentally changing how that weapon, like it's not, it's not like, Oh, a Tier 5 lets you use two perks at the same time. Right? If they did something like that, that would be a little more like, okay, this is, this is truly like a tier 5 is, is an absolute must. But I think the average person will get tier 3 and tier 4 on a lot of weapons and be just fine because, you know, oh, I've got this one that I, if I swap these two perks now, it's more PvP oriented and that's about it. Like, I, I, I think it's cool. I think it's, it's neat that it's, you know, we're getting more perks on weapons at the same time. But you, like, you're not, you're not breaking the game yet in any fundamental way where it's like, oh, you know, you get two perks at the same time on that weapon that you can utilize. Like.

It'S Cool.

I think it's, it's fun trophy items, but I think at the end of the day the average person, you can still get a Tier 2 weapon and still do a raid. Right? That's the, that's the main thing.

Yeah.

Is that it? Yeah. It's cool that you can get a weapon that's got every single perk on there that'll help with vault space. But it doesn't look like right now that it fundamentally like now the ammo generation thing, I'm intrigued by that. Is that like, is that every old weapons also going to have that, that stat now show or is this like.

I think so. Like I don't know if we'll be able to change that stat per se, unless there's like a mod that lets you do it. But I think, I assume, I mean if those stats are going to be visible on the new weapons, I assume that's going to be.

I would think so too, on everything. So.

And now I'm wondering if that ammo generation stat, that's not a hidden stat, that's existed on every weapon.

People have done tests where I think it's like every 50 kill, like let's say you just have nothing but red bar enemies. And I might be oversimplifying it, but I think it's basically if you're just using let's say a basic auto rifle, like every 50 kills or something like that, you generate a special brick and then every 200 kills you generate a heavy ammo brick or something like that. And it's, it's a. Basically there's like an internal counter in the game and if you kill like an elite or a stronger weapon, then that counts for let's say 40 kills out of the 50 that you would need.

I mean in vanilla D2, if you killed an orange bar or yellow bar.

Right.

Guaranteed heavy.

Right, Right. So that, there's that. So it's basically still that it's just a little more hidden and people have done. I think that's how people are able to, you know, figure out how they can solo raid bosses is. I know I need to kill a certain amount of ads and that will guarantee that I generate some amount of heavy ammo that I can pick up for my next damage. Rotation.

Do maybe. I mean they could both play. You know, you can get heavy randomly or. Yes, maybe the counter resets, but you can still get heavy randomly, but it resets when you get it. I don't know. But it'll be interesting to see how they do that or Maybe it's just a visual thing of that was always there and we just didn't see it.

Right.

And yeah, you know, we kill so many enemies. It builds up here have heavy.

Right. And I think, and I think that changes when you start using like special weapons or heavy weapons like that. That counter gets all messed up. But I like again a very oversimplification but that's my understanding of how it works.

Like maybe. Yeah, so maybe that is still a thing in the game. We just can't see it and this is making it clearer and more visible.

Sure. But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised.

Yeah.

So next thing, next topic. I want to jump into some good news. I think this is just all around good. I really don't. No way you could critique about this other than that it should have been implemented 10 years ago. There is a shooting range.

I was really tempted to interrupt you and say ah, yes, Star wars skins. But yes, no shooting range.

Yeah.

And it's very good finally. And it looks really cool. It's not just a copy and paste from The Season of Opulence 1. This seems fully just really, really cool. I mean, I mean there's everything you can possibly imagine in here. You can kind of play test against a bunch of different enemies.

And I'm gonna put money on this, right? I'm gonna put money on this.

Okay.

Someone has either done that or was working on it for a very long time and someone in management was like why are you working on that? And they're like because people want that. And they said yeah, it's not making us money though. I guarantee you that that was. I will put money on that. That that was going on like, like they, they've been wanting to. They've been working on the shooting range or been asking to work on the shooting range. You know, put some dev time into it for the past like four years or whatever and. And management's been like nah, no, it's not gonna make us money though.

It's not worth it. Just a. Yeah, I could see that happening.

You can work on it if you implement it that only people who buy the season pass can go into this training range.

But it looks pretty sweet. I mean it's very intensive. You can test against different champions and things like that too.

Yeah.

Attack you and yeah, you could run.

Through a whole enemy wave. Yeah, I mean that's. It's pretty sweet. It looks very, very cool.

Yeah.

And this.

It's just.

It's kind of crazy though. I mean there's definitely a little Bit of, I don't know, malice. Just a little bit of bitterness in the sense that this. This, like, should have been a thing, like so long ago.

Yes, totally.

It's. It's just like, silly. Like now thinking back, and I'm like, wow. We used like, remember Greg and Astacross running into a lost sector on Titan. Just a damage test against some random ogre. Because that was the best possible option to damage test right in. Just kind of silly. But, you know, it looks cool. I'm glad it's here. Yeah, it's. It's going to be fun. I think it's big news for build crafters, honestly. The shooting range armor 3.0, the new weapon stuff, this is. This is huge for those people.

This is. This is destiny free stuff. This is.

Yeah.

Especially with a light level change as well.

Yeah, we're getting a stat squish or light level squish, which is long overdue. I'm tired of looking at 2020 level items when it's just like, it doesn't even make sense anymore.

Like it's a meaningless, arbitrary number.

Bring it back down. Go, as they put it during, like, what, Taken King? They're like, we're converting Celsius to Fahrenheit. That's all it is. Like, it's. It's totally fine. But yeah, it's. I can only imagine what it would be like to be a new player and log in and be like, why is it because we got 1800? Like, where did that come from?

We got up to a point where we're talking about light level. That's like present year. So it just sounds like you're talking about a date or something.

Exactly.

Year or something. Yeah, I get it. You know, 1700 is a date, right? But, you know, 1750, most people aren't going to be talking about the year, you know, 1759. However, if you start mentioning, like, oh, 1995. They're like, what? Yeah. What are you talking about?

It's true.

It's kind of a silly migraine. It's good again. I agree.

That means we can't break the curse on the Dreaming City anymore.

No, no. Well, we will in like eight years again when we get to 999 again. Oh.

Oh, well, all right. So now that we've covered all that cool stuff, I think it's time we address the elephant in the room.

I do have to bring something up because we were talking about ash and iron before this, and I'm. I'm on opium train and I still am because you.

You have that copium ashen iron.

Yes. So they. They hinted at about halfway through Edge of Fate, we're going to go back to the Plaguelands, which is something that we've all talked about a lot in this. This podcast as like a hard copium that someday we're going to get Wrath of the Machine back. It's the last reprise raid. And yeah, so I actually would argue that. So if you. If you look at the. The on their. This. This on their TWAB from 5 8, which is a couple days ago, they have a little like timeline thing and they have the expansion showing Edge of Fate and then they've got. They call it like the expansion itself. And then there's a major update, which is the Ash and Iron, which is in September, which is kind of like effectively a new season, so to speak. It's like a sub season now for the expansion. They're very explicit, said new stories, new locations, new missions, new weapons, new gear, new raid for the Edge of Fate and a new dungeon for renegades. Now, if you look at the major update details, the first thing it says is new and reprised activities. Last time I checked, raid constitutes an activity. So they are not blatantly saying we're not getting a raid. They are saying we are getting reprised activities, though. So I am still on the copium train of there's a chance.

That is hard Kobe. So my. My reasoning as to why we're not getting Raft of the Machine is Bungie said they can't do as many raids and dungeons and that we're only getting one raid and one dungeon a year. The one.

It's part of expansion. Like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. Yeah. But they just. But they said in general, yes, it wasn't a. It wasn't. When it wasn't them talking about the next expansion, it was them just as a whole, as content goes, you know, each year we'll get one raid and one dungeon.

Yeah. They've also basically said they're done with Siva, but we're going back to the Plaguelands.

So I think that I think's gonna happen. I think people are gonna be very disappointed when we go back there. It'd be nice Snowy Cosmodrome, which is cool. I like that.

Right.

But the Siva there will be dead and there'll be something else there. The Fallen will be normal Fallen. They won't be. They won't be Siva Splicers. There will just be no Siva. They would just be normal Fallen. You know, the normal House of.

Yeah, whatever they are, they may do that.

II yeah, sorry, finish your thought and it'll be. It'll be Ashen iron. It will be. What's that activity that was in the Plaguelands?

Oh, the, the. The. Not the trials, the forage.

Yeah, it'll be that forge activity, but with normal fallen and. And. And a. And a score thing. And Lord Saladin will talk over it and get PTSD and stuff and. And yeah, I think that'll be it.

It could be. Or we could get Wrath of the Machine back. We don't know. If, if.

If we go back to the Plaguelands in Ashen Iron and their receiver Splicer fallen running around and we shoot at them and we kill them, then. Yeah, I agree with you. At some point we'll get raft the Machine back. However, if we go there, it's normal falling. We ain't getting rather the Machine back.

Yeah, you might be right. All I'm getting at is that they. On this timeline thing, all that they explicitly stated is that we're getting a new raid as part of the paid expansion and a new dungeon as part of. As part of Renegades. But with the major update, they were purposely vague because they obviously don't want people to get what I'm doing right now and get excited for what could potentially be nothing. But it just seems crazy to me that they. They have basically said in the past that they're like done with Siva. But the only reason that you would ever introduce a story in the Plaguelands is if you were. You were right. There's just too many. There's too many pieces there that sort of like, point.

I mean, this is. This isn't aimed at you, Rob, because you're a mature person. But the reason I am very say, blunt about it is because a lot of people in this community have now got it in their head that we are getting Wrath of the Machine in whenever that update is. When is Ash and I unscheduled? Like, I've seen so many people saying, I can't wait to do Wrath of the Machine. It's like they did not mention it at all. They didn't even say Wrath of the Machine.

You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right.

And there's a lot of people who are saying like, yeah, I can't wait to do it. And it's like, yeah, I want to play Raph of the Machine. I'm not. I can't be bothered to download D1 to do it. I'd like to do it in D2 on, you know, 120 frames but with, with cool guns. But I don't like, I'm not going to hold my breath, which for some reason some people are just expecting it now, which shouldn't be the case. But Rob, you're a mature person, so I know you're not going to have a, have a meltdown on the Internet about it.

This isn't me being like, well, I'm going to pre reorder this, this game because of this, or I'm not going to play this game because they didn't say that. Like I'm, they've, they've steered away from it for so long. And you're right, they, they have basically said that they're probably not gonna do another reprise raid anytime soon. But I also kind of get the feeling that with just some of the changes that have happened within the company, there's a new director, there's all of these internal changes. There's, there's things that could have sort of changed internally. And it's just the fact that this is the first time we've ever gotten any kind of indication that we would go back to the Plaguelands. And it's like you can't in my mind have the Plaguelands without Siva being a part of that because it's so like that was the only reason for the Plaguelands to exist in the first place. I mean, it's in the name Plaguelands. So it's like I, I, it, it just feels so weird to me. If they were to like go through the effort to bring the Plaguelands back, go through the effort to like have a story take place there, it just, in my, that'd be like the biggest tease like of all time to just go like just, just barely kiss. The idea of Wrath of the Machine coming back and then going like, I.

I do think that that's what they're doing. I do think that's why, that's why.

It'S called the Edge of Fate, because.

So you know that meme you posted, the spongebob one that I love. See, Right. See, you know the bottom bit where it says hurt others with self replicating nanotechnology? You take that bit off. So it's just, I love Siva. I want to hurt other people. That's, that's the mentality of the people who, who are expecting rap to drop in whenever, like September or whenever it is.

I love Siva.

I want to hurt others.

That's like 15 signs you're a, a Siva male versus a better than. Better than an alpha male.

I don't. I. Yeah, I don't. I. Like it's gonna happen. We're gonna see like a bunch of people just have an absolute meltdown maybe. But yeah, it just.

It's. It's odd to me to. To go through the effort to bring back the Plaguelands when it's like they've done. I mean, they brought back the Dreadnought for no reason, back when they brought back King's Fall. And it's like that, that was even more odd because they created an entire. Or going back to the planet of Venus just so they could put Vault of Glass in the game. It's like, why would you go through the effort to put in the Plaguelands but then not have.

Because it's the RAID associated version of Vog, the temp remaster of Vogue. All right, I'm gonna be on my. I'm gonna be on my deathbed and they're gonna place a. Or I'm gonna be in hospital and they're giving me a catheter in the shape of Vog.

Yeah, well, your eulogy that I'm gonna give at your funeral will be a walk through of Vault of Glass. So every. Every.

Every oracle that appears is just like some. Some.

Yeah, we're something. I said we're gonna get the Bellas at the. At your funeral and it's gonna be the. The sequence of Gargan Harvest.

Well, no, it's anytime. Anytime an oracle appears instead of the sound oracle. Yeah, it's the. It's just some. It's just a voice clip of me saying some heinous thing over the years.

I'm on board all your leaked voice chats. Yeah, all right. Elephant in the room. All right.

Yeah, yeah, let's.

Should we talk about. Should we talk about Star Wars?

Yeah, let's talk about fucking Star wars, bro. All right, so I'm sure you've heard Destiny 2 Renegades is a thing that is happening. They announced this. It is a quote unquote, Star wars inspired Destiny expansion, which is supposedly. They're like, no, guys, I swear, it's a Destiny story.

We just have lightsaber clarification on it, which. Right, okay.

Basically, can I sat on Tatooine?

Okay, yeah, yeah.

I won't recap because I'm sure if you're listening to this, you've heard of it.

I don't have an issue with Renegade. Right. What I have an issue with is the Kylo Ren and Darth Vader outfits. They are awful.

Like, they're bad.

They are genuinely. It's just Darth Vader and Kylo Rey. General Grievous. I love General Grievous. Right. And he's different enough, you know, to the gear, he's slightly a bit dumb, the ornaments, but he's different enough because like, you can't really have General Grievous in, in. In Destiny because of the shape of him.

Right.

You know, sure, he's too skinny. However, Darth Vader and Kylo Ren are just people, right. And Guardians, they're just. And so the skins, I love how I'm saying skins. I'm not even saying ornaments because they're just fucking skins.

Yeah.

I've gone on fucking fortnight and I've gone, oh, look, the Darth Vader skin. I better do the gritty now. Like it, like. Can you see what I mean about the General Grievous one though? It like, you can tell he's pushing it. But there are some Destiny assets in that skin. In the helmet ornament because of the same eyes as the, you know, like the D1 gas mask looking hunter. Yes.

Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I forget the name.

The same eye eyes that they've used, recycled content. But me, it. It's just like. It's just fucking dark.

I like. Because of how stupid they are.

I like Star wars. Right. I'm not someone who hates Star wars, but that is genuinely. I'm not even going to use that word. But yeah, so I have an issue with that. However, the reason they have the Lucasfilm logo slapped on the bottom of the Renegade thing, which they did elaborate further, which I figured from the start, because of the way they word it, it just wasn't the most clear thing ever. Is that because of how inspired it is by Star Wars. It's a space western, you know, sci fi western. And so they've had to go to Lucasfilm and go, look, we're doing this thing. Are you okay with this? And they've gone, yeah, sure. So basically Bungie don't want to get sued their asses off by Disney and Lucasfilm. But what I imagine is that when they've gone and done this. So most companies, when you do a crossover for skins or whatever with a game, the other company has to agree to it. They have to sign it off right at the end. So, like the outfits, they have to sign them off. So.

Oh God.

What I imagine has happened is Bungie have gone, look, we want to do this inspired thing, right? We want to be inspired by, you know, Star Wars. You know, that's what we want to do. We want to do a space Western. And they've gone, yep, that's fine on a few conditions. And I reckon a few of those conditions were some of the more Star wars looking things in it because they want something out of it, obviously.

You know, I, I will respectfully disagree and this is all speculation what we're doing, but I think, I think Lucasfilm went to them and is paying them money to put Star wars in this.

I don't think Destiny is. I know this, this going to like. I mean, we make content for this thing. We play Destiny. I don't think Destiny is, is big enough at this point that they want, like, they care that much, like to put this, to put Star wars into Destiny. I don't think that's, I don't think that's a con, like a consideration of theirs.

No, I.

Well, the other problem though, the other reason that Lucasfilm logo is in that trailer. I mean, they literally use the Star Destroyer sound effect. There is a DL44 and a lightsaber.

Oh, yeah. No, I mean, all right, to be fair, some of the Star wars sound effects are free to use. They're not. It's just we associate them with Star wars and now people won't use them. Not all of them. Some.

It's like public domain stuff.

Yeah, sure. And I think that's part of it because obviously if we do a space western, it's inspired by Star wars and we use the sound effects, they're gonna go, hold on a minute.

Yeah, what?

But I do think that these skins, the new ones, are Lucasfilm Disney going, well, look, you're going to do Star wars games, but you're going to do them how we like because they have to, they have to be okayed by the other, the other place.

Well, I think there's. I think there's a few aspects to this. I think ultimately there's. There's probably someone at Bungie Marketing who, you know, I don't, I don't know how that conversation initiates, but there's already been a ton of like Star Wars Fortnite crossovers and, and all of that stuff, right? There's. There's probably someone in charge at Bungie who does crop, who's been doing all of these other ones, right. We had the Assassin's Creed and the, the PlayStation 1 and some of the other, the other crop. Like there was the Fortnight one. I can't believe that was also a thing. I've Sort of tried to block from my memory, but here we are where it's like, oh, shit, I forget about that. So they. There's. There's obviously a team or people that coordinate this kind of stuff, and they probably have to go into a contract and probably for the skit. The Star wars skins that we got last this kind of last season, right? The Stormtrooper and the Imperial Guard and all that crap is probably. Is something like Disney goes, okay, you're allowed to license our likeness for characters, but we get a cut of what the profits are for that. And we have to explicitly put the Lucasfilm logo at the bottom just so people know where this ship came from. And then probably what happened is that made a ton of money because I've seen a lot of Stormtroopers running around. And then Disney goes, what other ideas do you have? And they're like, well, we've been working on this idea of doing Renegades, right? I don't know what the timeline is. Maybe. Maybe it started a long time ago.

Okay. I was gonna say, because they don't make content that quickly, right?

So they.

So this is. You know, this is. The Renegades has been in the pipeline, right?

And they. They probably said, hey, like, we want to do this crossover because that crossovers are a thing right now. And that's kind of one of the conversation points that I want to get over to is I think crossover saturation is getting too much, and I'm sick of it. But that's a. We'll get to that. But basically, it probably started with Disney going, all right, we can put a few skins in the game, and let's see how that goes. And wouldn't you know what? Titans love looking like Stormtroopers. And so they're like, great, let's do more. Let's make this Renegades thing a thing. And I. My interpretation. And if I were to. If I were to put money on the table right now, my guess is they showed the DL44 and they showed the lightsaber. I get the feeling the DL44 is going to be an exotic, like, sidearm that you get in the.

They could just be ornaments for an exotic. It could just be an Ariana's Vow.

But you look at, like, the. The bungee 30th anniversary, right? We basically got the. The Magnum and the BX, the battle rifle from Alo, right? Like, it's. It's. We're putting a deal 44, and it's gonna have some cheeky name. It's probably not going to be called Deal44. And we're gonna get the lightsaber. My guess is the lightsaber is going to be something like how ergo Sum was in final shape. Where you're gonna. There's gonna be random roles that you have to grind for and each one's gonna have a different blade color.

Yes. And the solo one is sith.

Right.

And then the strand one.

Right.

Exactly.

That's my guess for how they're gonna do it. I think the rest of it, if you look at the armor, is clearly inspired by Star wars. But I don't look at the Warlock holding lightsaber going, actually, you know what? What?

The armor in the trailer itself is good. Yeah, I think it's good armor. It's much better than the fucking crossover skin crap.

Right.

And that's. And that's. The Titan armor looks cool.

Right? I. And that's what I was gonna say is I think the, the armor and what they've shown beside, if you, if you ignore the DL44 and the lightsaber and just go, this is armor that we have inspired, have been inspired by Star wars, ultimately it's going to be its own story, blah, blah, blah. The moment you put the DL44 in the lightsaber, then it's like you sort of start to get that disconnect. And then to your point, the what? The armor skins that we've been getting in the game that have been Star wars crossovers are just blatant, like. Right. Like it's just Darth Vader with stupid shoulder pads or Kylo Ren. And that stuff is really annoying and kind of bothers me. The idea of a Star wars inspired story where you happen to have a lightsaber, I think could work as long as from a lore perspective, we don't poop on any existing stuff. That's. That's where my biggest concern is. Is like the lore and canon of the. Of what we have.

Well, I mean, I wonder what. Okay, so there's got to be some connection between the first expansion in the second. Right. There's got to be some reason to. Why. Yeah. So I, I'm wondering. Because it's a big shift, isn't it? Going from some weird place where seemingly this time travel due to time dilation and other things going on to a. A space western, like in a desert planet area. So there's got to be something going on there. You know, it's not just, oh no, what's his face from Half Life has done a runner and he's gone to Tatooine or whatever they call it. But yeah, I mean, people liked Forsaken, you know, the, the. And that.

That's.

That was space Western. So this is, this is more of that. I have less issue for me, it's less issue with the actual expansion itself and just more issue with the skins.

Yeah, the skins are what bother me more than anything they've shown with the actual Renegades trailer.

Yeah.

My fear though is that I know they've said like, oh, this is just inspired by Star Wars. Well, if it's just inspired by Star wars, do you really need to like, have like the Lucasfilm sign off? Do you really need to say, oh, this is inspired by Star Wars. Here's a bunch of Star Wars.

I think that part it comes from. Well, Star wars is one of the biggest, like, film franchises, especially in, like pop culture. So.

But like, how. Right, so this was much inspiration is Star Wars. I mean, because you could say you can make anything and be like, oh, this is inspired by so and so, and you don't have to slap licensing on it. So I'm curious what that actually a lot heavier than I. Yeah.

And I think that goes back to kind of, you know, they've always been saying from early, early Destiny 1 interviews, right? They're like, it's a space Western. We've taken huge inspiration from Star Wars. And you can see that with like tubes in the armor and. And having capes. Right? That doesn't really make sense from like any kind of realistic standpoint, but it kind of works from like a fantasy perspective that Star wars had. Right. Like Jedi's have robes, but it's not really practical as armor for fighting. But it looks cool.

I mean, the Warlock super is literally like, I mean, all right, he didn't. It's not, you know, there are other characters with electricity coming out of fingers. But like, you know, Stormcaller is very.

Powerful, you know, but so I think, again, I think what happened is. And I could be dead wrong. My guess is that when. When they were sort of planning all of this out, it maybe just started with, hey, we want to do these skins. And it was so successful. Either, either. Right. Maybe, maybe, maybe the Stormtrooper skin has sold more than any other skin in the Eververse store ever. Right? Maybe that was a huge chunk of money for both Disney and Bungie. And Disney's like, we want more of this and what is that going to take? And maybe someone at Bungie was like, well, we were able to put the Magnum and the BX or The battle rifle in Destiny and people kind of liked it. What are the chances we could put a lightsaber in there and they're like, Disney's like, done. You just got to put our logo at the bottom. But let's make that happen. Right. Like, maybe that's the. Maybe that's the crossover part is that up to that point they were. They were just kind of working on it.

I think, I think that the skins would have been. Or like the. The Renegade stuff would have already been done before the skins. Because the skins came out this season.

Right? No, but that's what I'm saying is the DL44 and the lightsaber are what sealed the fate of. Right. Maybe. Maybe up to the. Maybe originally, Renegades was just going to be a Forsaken Part 2, but because they've been doing this collaboration with Star.

Wars, they honestly think that they. They started working on Renegade, went to. Went to Lucasfilm Disney and said, look, we want to do this thing. We'll put skins in now.

Right? Exactly.

No, no. But. But they already agree to it because the timeline for them adding the skins in this season and then suddenly having this whole thing made, that doesn't add up at all. Like, the timeline for that is too short. There's no way that they would have had this already or stuff to go, then slapped Star wars stuff on top of it. It would have had to have been being made already. I don't think this is a result of the skin selling well. I think it helped, but I don't. I think that Star wars stuff was already there.

Maybe. I.

Because I don't. That. That's way too long, too short of a time to, you know, for that. Because, like, all right, these expansions are smaller, sure. But they still take time to make.

Absolutely.

So I don't think that went. So when did the Star wars skins come out?

Like, because Heresy. So that was what, like, January Ish.

Right. And that's been four months. They can't have, like, nearly made all of that in four months. Like, I. It's just not, you know, so this was definitely a already done deal. We're doing this Renegade thing. Maybe they've got more. Like, maybe the second set of skins weren't planned. We'll do the other ones. And they sold. Then Disney came back to them when. Look, we know you're working on Renegades, but do these other skins as well? I don't know, but I do not think that the. This, like the Star wars stuff had to have already been done and signed off on way before the Stormtrooper ornaments and stuff came out. I think that's way too short of a time. If Bungie come out and go look, yeah, we did it because of that then fair enough. But I, I, I'm like 99% sure that it Renegades was a Star wars thing before those skins were sold. Yeah, like I like just dev timeline wise. I just don't, don't think that that would would have been feasible unless Bungie are like I think I was the most efficient devs.

I would believe you if we had more than just a trailer. You can, you can render trailer pretty quickly. And I, I, again, you're absolutely, we don't know the timeline. It this could have been two or three years in the making because Disney may work like molasses too. Right. But I, you know, I, I would not be surprised if the the Heresy armor was a feel of the waters kind of thing where again they we Bungie might be kind of in a moment of desperation where they need to go back and look at what worked in the game and what didn't. And things like Forsaken were well received. Like all right, let's go back to kind of the space Western roots. And if I think all I'm getting at is if all that we have that's truly blatant Star wars stuff in the game is the DL44 and lightsaber. Those could have been created way after the fact. And then they slapped the, the Star wars, the Lucasfilm on there. But maybe all along they've been developing a space Western theme and then they went and pitched it to Disney and said can we put lightsabers in the game and we'll sell some skins because it works for you guys in Fortnite. And they're like that seems like a good idea like that. That's the cynical side of me is that but ultimately if Bungie was looking at it as if they say no, well, we still have a space Western and we're just not going to put lightsabers in it. Like I, I don't know but I hate, I think we can all agree that the skins are just the worst thing ever because they are truly, they are truly immersion breaking more than any other ever skin. This bothers me more than the stupid slacks that the Hunters wear.

100%. This is the Darth Vader.

Yes. I hate seeing pink Stormtroopers running around. It just bothers me in a way that is like a new low in my mind. Like it just, yeah, I, yeah, it's bad.

It's real bad.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm. I'm just. I'm not excited for this Renegades thing. I think it's silly.

I want to know more. Write it off.

And that's fair. I just. I have such low expectations right now. And I'm open to be, like, proven wrong. I would love for my mind to be changed, but right now I am just not. Yeah.

Are you gonna. You're gonna get to Ash and I and you're gonna be like, waiting for that. That copium of Raph, and then whether or not that does or doesn't happen, we'll decide how you feel about. About Renegades. Because if Raph comes out, you're like, yes, we're so back. And then it doesn't come out. You're like, fuck me, it's in a ditch. And then Renegade comes out and then it's like, oh, Jesus Christ, they've just shot it.

Well, and that's. I think that's the. That's the weird part, right, is you have the contrast of Edge of Fate looks really good because it's a whole new world. I. I dig the Metroidvania. Right. Like, they literally show you turning into a morph ball and solving puzzles by going into narrow corridors. Like, I'm super on board with that. You want to talk about, like, ripping off ideas? Like, you literally turn into a ball to traverse.

What I will quickly say about Renegade is you bet your ass that there's gonna be Star wars fans who have not played Destiny. And that's playing Destiny, right?

Like, if it brings people, that's.

That see, that's a good thing, right?

It may bring.

No, I'm gonna gatekeep this shit. I don't want Star wars fans, actually.

Yeah, I've seen how they treat actors. I know my friend who's a massive Star wars fan. If. If I sent him, if he hasn't seen it, if I send him that Renegade thing, he's gonna start playing Destiny. He's never played Destiny's Life. He'll start playing Destiny. Especially since most Star wars games are even one offs, right. Or the online ones are just bad.

Right?

You know, like, until we get Knights of the Old Republic re.

You know, remake on that one, I'm not holding my breath anymore.

That is coming out. Confirmed that that is coming out.

Yeah, sure it is.

No, no, they have given. No, no, no. To be fair, the studio has given an update on that.

Oh, really? I. I've stopped following it because I kind of gave up because That's.

Oh, yeah, no, no, they, they. They've. They've doubled, tripled down that they. They're working on it and that it's.

Going to come out I'm excited about anyway.

Unless we get a certain T word thing to come in and ruin everything. But. Don't know. But yeah, like, so there aren't really online Star wars games. I know most people don't like games as a service, but most people play them. So, you know, that is a thing.

I will say. The Battlefront 2 community is still kind of active. There's still quite a few people playing that mostly, but that's getting updates.

What I mean is like, they're like, oh, game online. I have lightsaber. And then they play it for a bit and then they like the. The rest of Destiny because, you know, the core part of Destiny is still cool. The gunplay is nice. So, you know, there's that.

Yeah, it's just. I guess just to finish. The one kind of thought I had is like they show for Edge of Fate. It feels like it's this completely new, new interesting space. I mean, we're even getting new enemy like subgroups. Right. It's like vandals with like jetpacks and there's weird like, other strand shields.

We got anthem in Destiny 2 before GTA 6. Yeah.

And it's like. And that. That kind of stuff is super cool, super exciting. And then to. To kind of go like a hard jump from that to then renegades being like. I know I use the word and I don't want to use it too harshly, but sort of creatively bankrupt of.

Of how it feels where it's like.

Oh, so this is, this is the. And this is the. The main talking point that I think I wanted to get to is like I've. I've for the most part been okay with the crossovers that Destiny's done up to this point because they've been pretty minor. I. It's sort of inevitable when you have stupid things like the, the Scooty Puff Jr. Mini sparrow and all that. That, like that. That. That's constantly kind of taking me out of the game, but I've kind of let it go, even though, like, it's not. And it's one of those things where it's like, oh, you don't have to buy it. It's like, yeah, but you still have to look at it. When people are in the tower doing a Rizzler dance as a stormtrooper in a pink, like, shader like Rick, you're still forced to look at it if you want to play this game. And it's like I've been slowly like, okay with some of these changes as time has gone on, but this, this is like a new. Well, I'll call it a new low. Yeah, that's like. This is like the first time when I was done and I'm not trying to be hyperbolic or trying to get like, you know, clickbait stuff. This is kind of the first time where I was like, do I even really want to pre order this? Because I, I, I, if I want to play Star wars game, I'll go play Star wars game. I don't, I don't necessarily. I don't want lightsabers in Destiny because then it, it's like it's losing its identity more and more every day. That's the, that's kind of my final thought on it is I'm just, I'm disappointed.

I agree. I'm very, I'm like upset. And I know, I know there are things that are way more worth getting upset over in the world right now, but I still cannot change the fact that like, it is just the most is. It is probably the most delusional creative decision they've ever made.

Yeah.

And Scotty, you're going to go into the final shape. The final shape excision cutscene with the daft. The daft. The Death Star Ghost show on. You're going to get to the part where Ghost dies and then you're going to close the game.

Yep. Seriously, it's, it's just, it's silly. It doesn't make any. And another thing that pissed me off and, and no, hate to the girl presenting, don't shoot the messenger, but the wording that they were using when they were presenting this was pissing me off so much because they were just talking about Renegades and how they're innovating and like experimenting and innovating. I'm like, could you be any less self aware? This is the exact opposite of innovation. This is just regurgitating assets and ideas and themes from the most prolific sci Fi media franchise in history. And you're going to call that innovation, right?

I mean, when you're just putting a.

Warlock, Edge of Fate is far more innovating than this.

I agree. Like that talk about innovation. Where it's again, where they're like, we're taking inspiration from Metroidvanias and it's like, cool. We're actually going to have. It doesn't need to be like a new Class, but sort of. What was the, what was the psychic ability from Witch Queen where you basically got like paths revealed in the statues would like point at things. Shit. What was that called? Deepsight. Right. Where it's like, oh, we're kind of introducing this neat little mechanic into the campaign that's sort of specific to the campaign and it makes it kind of fun and gives it replay value. And so it's like to say that, okay, now we're actually going to make you do this sort of like non linear storytelling where you're solving a mystery and you're solving these puzzles and you have to turn into a morph ball to do it. Like. Okay, I kind of like that. And it works from like you're turning into a ball of, like a ball lightning of, of energy as you traverse these things. And maybe you're gonna use your energy.

Oh my God. I know what's gonna.

Oh.

We'Ve got, but we've got environmental abilities.

Yeah.

Planet. And it's planet based. Right.

And it's.

Right, Scotty, you are actually gonna jump off the nearest bridge on the Renegade. I can already see it now. The environmental ability will be to move objects using the force 100.

Yeah, I mean you already do that in. That's what they, that's what they show. An Edge of Fate. Right. Like there's gonna be like.

No, I know.

Boxes and platforms.

They, they, they were hitting it with grenades with Strand and stuff like that, right? No, no, this is gonna be a full on wave. The hand stairs appear. Yeah, I'm building. You know, like in the LEGO Star wars games, you're just gonna sit there.

Going.

The studs come out really fast.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, I, I, it went from, it went from Edge of Fate looking really cool and really exciting to just being like it almost to your point. Yeah, don't shoot the messenger. Like you could tell she was very excited. Again, they do these things live. They're not scripted. Like they have talking points. Oh, I like, yeah, she's been great every, I don't remember what her name is, but all the, all the other interviews that she's done. Very passionate about what she does. But it just kind of felt like, okay, we're at Edge of Fate now. We're kind of out of ideas. So here's like a Star wars thing to hold you over and it's like, oh no. Like that's, that's how it felt.

Yeah, I think I, I think if it was a hold you over till the next expansion thing, I feel like they would have leaned more into plague lands. That would have been the hold you over thing. You know, we're gonna do wrath.

Yeah.

I don't know, because it's not happening.

I watched that. Sort of wanted to throw up a little bit after watching the. The Renegades part. And then as time has gone on, I've, like, I want to see more, but it still doesn't change the way I feel about the. The Stormtrooper skin, the Darth Vader skin. Like that. That stuff bothers me on a much more fundamental level. But I still don't like the idea of lightsabers in this game. Like, that's. I feel like that's across the line in some way.

I agree that it's. It's. Yeah, no. 100%. This.

It's so stupid.

I literally thought when you guys were talking about it that it was a joke. Like, you're. You're kidding me. Like, yeah. Are you joking? Are you being dramatic? Are you just like, oh, this is like. It's just like, oh, here's like, I don't know, we're going to the Death Star or whatever. When you said, oh, we're Star wars isn't Destiny. I'm like, huh? I watched the thing. And then there's the literal.

Yeah. Putting the Lucasfilm logo on it was just like the icing on the cake of like, okay, this is the line that we crossed over.

That was. That was peak. That was peak.

Exactly. So I'm not. I'm not writing it off. Off. I also haven't pre ordered it yet. Like, that's kind of where I'm at is.

Is you've got to pre order it. It's required.

I'm not pre ordering.

I want to know more. And I want, like, I know they've already kind of come out and said, it's. It's. It's inspired by. It's not. It's its own story. It's gonna exist in the Destiny universe. It's not some kind of Star Wars. Like, sure, but it's like, yeah, sure, sure. Is it also gonna be. Is it just gonna be like, everything you do is just gonna be some, like, nod and reference? Like, you're gonna meet some character whose name that's what, Jad Brain. And it's like, oh, he looks like Cad.

No, no, no, no, no, no. Hold on. No, no, no. It will be, you know, Spider's gonna be Jabba the Heart. You know, it's gonna be one of those things.

Yeah, well, and that. And that. Like, you're gonna meet some smuggler who's got, like, a giant bear thing with him who's just like, yeah, I could take you on this trip.

Hey, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's Nimbus in a cowboy hat.

Oh, God, it's.

And he's got a. Who's he got with him? Who else? People don't like. He's got Shorthorn dressed up as a bear.

Yeah, there you go.

If Nimbus is in Renegades, I'll pre order.

You hear that, Bungie?

Just to spite him.

No, no, no, no. Nimbus is in the next one, which is Destiny of Avengers. And he's the silver.

Oh, God, stop.

That's the next one, boys. Iron man and Destiny.

Well, that's anthem. And that failed. You know what?

They'll put Spider Man, Marvel Rivals crossover.

We're getting a Captain America skin for the Titan so we can actually be, you know, in Sentinel super.

Strangers of Warlock.

There's an emote for the.

For.

For the Warlocks. They get Iron man skin, right? And it's. And it's the Warlocks going, he's right behind me, isn't he? That's. That's what it is.

And get a moon knight cape. And that's. That'll be.

Oh, no.

Emma Frost skin for Marisav.

Scotty, you're done. You're cut off. I hate you guys so much.

I'm not doing anything.

I'm not doing anything. It's just. No.

Sorry.

So, yeah, I, I. It just sucks because it's. It's a new. The goal. The goal post is just getting pushed a little bit more every. Every season and.

No, we love. We love the go.

Yeah. I think it's just.

That keeps getting worse.

It's just the. The cynical side. It's just like, that's just to make another buck. And they know that. Like, they. Everyone's looking at that Fortnite Star Wars. Sweet, sweet cash going. Bungie's like, I want part of that. And I get it. It just, like, it just.

Just makes me sad.

I don't want it at the cost of its creative integrity. And it feels like this is a line that's been crossed that we can't go back from.

I agree. It's thrown out the window. It's over. It just feels like a big, like. I know. They're like, I mean, we'll see. Maybe it'll be good. Maybe it won't be as bad as I'm expecting it to be.

It'll be worse, but it just Feels like.

It just feels like a big, like, fuck you to anyone who, like, wrote for this game in the past, anyone who has, like, ever taken this story even remotely seriously. If they're like, yeah, fuck you. Now we have lightsabers. Like, what?

What?

Yeah, I don't know.

It just feels like, yeah, I just. I hope that there was someone in one of those meetings. Like, we're not actually doing this. Think. I'm like, I'm sure there had to have been a couple of people that are like, all right, Stormtrooper skin is one thing, but we're not. We're not actually partnering with Disney to do an expansion. Right. It's like, no, this is the thing where you just like, yeah, just.

It's a thing that's happening.

Obviously. Everything. Everything is inspired by something. Right. And. And again, we've talked about this. Like, Destiny's always been inspired by Star wars in some capacity. It's just. It's. It's tangentially walked a line and. And. But never just been blatant in this way. And that sucks. Yup.

Anyways, last thing I think we should touch on real quick, Rob, if you want to talk about your thoughts on.

Right.

Of the Nine that came out. Oh, yeah, that's like a new dungeon system. So, yeah, let's. Let's talk about that's.

Yeah. So the.

Was it good? Hopefully.

So we. So I. Well, the title is disappointing because up leading up to this, we were all kind of like, all right, are we gonna, you know, the. The few buddies of mine that kind of do this stuff? Like, are we gonna grind for this title? We're like, well, if it's as good as God Slayer, like, that's that. Because in my mind, that is still like, the coolest title that we've ever gotten. I mean, obviously it's subjective, but it's like, then. Then Rights of the Nine came out and it's like, oh, it's not that cool. The weapons also are all kind of mediocre at best. Like, they didn't really introduce new cool perks to them that make me want to, like. So I'm not really interested in the weapons, not really interested in the title. We did do an ultimatum Run of Spire the Watcher. We got to the boss, kind of got stuck on him for a while because we were just kind of like, I don't know. I. I hate that boss fight in general. I hate it on normal. That's one of the few dungeons I've run solo. And I ate that boss. And so to have it on, like, a harder difficulty and just have it be kind of annoying and. And spammy. I just. I. I don't know. I'll probably grind for a few more of the weapons, but I'm not going to be pursuing the title because I just. It's not like a. Oh, it's too hard. It's just. I didn't. It's not. It's not a title that makes me want to, like, work at it. And, like, because I'm thinking of, like, if. If Spire the watch was annoying. Ghost of the Deep Dormuma, or whatever the hell her name is. That final boss. That. That. That might be my least favorite dungeon boss fight of all dungeons because of how tedious it is. Oh, by large, yes. There's no. Because it. Just the amount of. The amount of weird hoops you have to jump through just to, like, get to damage and then damage itself is just kind of annoying. Like, I don't enjoy any aspect of that fight. Like, I don't like going to the three separate rooms. I don't like that you have to do deepsight briefly to like, like, find which one you have to go to. And then once you do it, you have to, like, thread the needle by looking at the. The loop through the symbol. Like. Like, half of those things feel unnecessary to me. Like, if it was just figure out which platform you have to go to and then kill the respective lightbearer and go dunk it on that plate, I think that would be enough for that fight. But because you have to go do additional steps each time, I just. I hate that dungeon fight. And. And what. What should have been the coolest dungeon of all is sort of, in my mind, sort of spoiled by that boss fight. Like, I. I also hate the traversal of that because it's so long and tedious like that. Thematically. What is my favorite dungeon is also my least favorite dungeon to run through. Like, it's. It's. It's. I think the only dungeon where people go, hey, do you mind if we, like, do a run? Because I'm trying to get, like, the trace rifle. I typically will go, nah, I'm busy. Like, I will make up an excuse to not have to do it. And that's the only, like, dungeon that I do that for Because I just hate that boss fight. So, yeah, the traversal. So I will run through it. I'm not going to run through it on Ultimatum. I don't care for the title, the weapons. I don't like any of the. The Ghost of The Deep weapons either. Like, none of them. I also hate the title of the Glaive, the Greasy something. It just sounds gross greasy. Look, I don't like that. So I, I, you know, I will say the one thing that was cool about Ultimatum, and I don't know if it's like this on the normal version because they've only run an ultimatum, but they did change some of the encounters a little bit. Like, they made them a little more interesting where you have to, like, on the, the second, the, the boss fight for the second encounter, you have to, like, go disable the, the. You have to light up the little, you know, line of, of electrical circuits in a specific order. Now, like, that's cool. And then the opening encounter, you actually have to, like, fight a little mini boss before you can actually jump down into the little pit. And you actually get a reward there, which is kind of nice. So it's like sort of like a fourth encounter, if you will, for that dungeon. So there's, there's some change mechanics. I'm totally on board with that. I just, I, I was telling Map before you got on, like, I was okay grinding for God Slayer because in my mind that was also. Pantheon was a really cool. Like, doing a boss Rush was awesome. And if they did something similar with dungeons where they did, like a dungeon boss Rush, I might be more on board, but you still have to do the entire dungeon. And the problem. That's really annoying. And I think this is where I kind of finally, like, threw in the towel. This is my last little statement about it is there's that part between the second and third encounter where you're like, at the top of the tower and then you have to, like, descend down and you have the reef to get the charge and you have to shoot this specific pillars. Well, now you have to shoot them in a certain order, and that's fine. But you have res tokens in the transition points. And what's really stupid is you're doing a lot of vertical dropping. And so there was a couple of times where one of us died from one of, like, the fans because there's like the. We have to jump through the vent and onto the fan blade and then jump through another vent. Well, one of us would die.

Yeah.

And then you couldn't go and retrieve their body. And because you have the res token thing, we would just wipe because, like, I don't understand why they put tokens in the transition points. That was the stupidest thing they could have done. And so it's like, it's just little things like that where it's like, it's not worth playing Ultimatum in my mind because I'm not good enough to do the dungeon. I guess it's like a get good thing where I'm like. I just have no desire to like.

What I will say, right. What I will say quickly. I've just checked. All right. Now, not everyone plays Destiny on Steam.

Right?

Right. It's PC is the smallest. So this is the Saturday after the reveal. Destiny 2 is the sixth top seller on Steam. Yes, I know it's a free game, but it tracks obviously, like people downloading the game. So clearly it's helped. Right, because it's above things like Doom, Dark Ages, which literally just came out. The Elder Scrolls, you know, the Oblivion Remaster, you know, and Schedule one and that sort of thing. So I know, yes, it's free. Those games are paid. However, if Destiny is in is the sixth most downloaded thing, then clearly what they post.

Yeah, yeah, that's fine. That's it. I. There's nothing you can do about it. And the more people playing this game, the better. Like, if people are excited about lightsabers in this game, great. It just. It's probably not for me.

Yep, me neither. But more power to you, I guess, if it's. If it makes you happy.

And this is. I guess this isn't me declaring that I'm. I'm not gonna play Destiny anymore. I'm just. I. I'm kind of at the point where I would like to know more before I'm fully on board.

Yeah, I am not on board either. It's the kind of thing where it's like, well, I'm not gonna buy it right now.

Right.

That's for sure. So you gotta convince me a little bit.

Agreed.

And I'm sure they will, but it'll just take time. I think so.

Well, they've got about two months. Yeah. Till.

Well, I mean, I'm gonna get Edge of Fate. But Renegade comes out in December, right?

Yes.

So they got time to convince me otherwise, but as of now, I'm not getting like the Ultimate Edition or whatever.

No. Vote with your wallet anyways.

Vote with your wallets, please. Because too many people will just continue to buy things and continue to complain. And it's like, well, what did you think was going to happen?

Yeah, that's. I think it. Anyway, that's the biggest. Like when people complain about the Eververse store and then it's like you.

Then they go by.

You are not allowed to critique that.

You're you're.

No, you're part of the problem because you are contributing to it. Like seriously, I mean, I think. And map. I know you've. You've bought a few of like the. You buy the winter skins. Right. Because I know you like those ones.

I haven't. The last two years, I didn't really like them, but I do like the winter themed armor that was at the start of like more so start of D2. I really like that.

Some of those were pretty good.

Typically it's like horns and stuff like that. It doesn't like obviously Christmas skins in game, I'm a bit funny with because I love them but I wouldn't wear them unless it's Christmas. So say like on Overwatch. I like the Christmas skins if they're Christmassy and I equip them at Christmas, but I would not have them any other time in the year. But Destiny armor, which is good. Is this just winter and it's typically cool stuff. But I didn't really like the dragon stuff that we're going for, which is odd because normally I like dragons but just didn't like it. Yeah. That I normally get that. I know I normally get the winter stuff. The Halloween ones. Yeah. Depending on what it is. But I typically just zombies like bright dust. Yeah. I got the bug one, I got the moth Ish one because I wanted to make a Volcarona Warlock, which I did end up doing.

That's super cool.

But you have to show me a picture. I've got it. I'll have to find it somewhere. But yeah, no, I, I like, I, I get it. Why people buy them and then they complain is like weird. But I. Yeah, I don't want to see Darth Vader running around the map, shoulder charging and then just. And then just fucking whipping out a flaming hammer.

The pink Darth Vader thing is the. Or the purple Stormtrooper. That's the kind of stuff where I'm just like, what are we doing? Yep.

But just.

Just silly.

Yeah.

Anyways, that about closes it out.

Yeah.

Thank you for listening.

Thanks for listening to us rant about this. If you guys want, please consider. I don't know if you're watching on or listening on Spotify. Watch on YouTube, whatever. Go subscribe to all our stuff. We try to stream every now and then. Rob got into the marathon close to alpha and did a little bit of streaming of marathon over on Twitch. So go check that out.

Well, that I played for three hours and then no one else I knew got access to the alpha. So I lost interest real quick because it is. It is not. Yeah, it is not a solo.

Very limited.

Like, I. I didn't enjoy it as a solo.

Maybe they. Maybe they should. I was gonna say maybe they should do the split fiction thing where if you buy it, two other people get it, but then I don't.

That's what they. Arc raiders is. My buddy got into the arc raiders thing because he and I play the finals quite a bit. So he. He got into the. The arc raiders, like, tech demo, whatever the hell they called it. And then it's like if you played four matches and you played for at least a half an hour, then you'd get a code that you could share with somebody. And so that's what he did is he played for one night, got the code shared with me, and then we played for like three or four nights and it was awesome. Like, I don't know why they couldn't done that with. With.

Oh, God. Is this going to be a Battleborn Overwatch 100?

Yeah. People are already comparing, and it's like they're so different in. In art design and one's third person versus first person. Like, they're not even remotely the same. They. They scratch a similar itch that they're.

Both, you know, extraction with that is that I. Battle Born and Overwatch were very different when. Especially when Overwatch first came out, but they were because they came out around the same time and Blizzard then wasn't in anyone's bad books. So people just shat all over battleborn. I mean, I played both, but. Yeah, so battleborn just disappeared off the face of the cliff and then was shut down not that long after.

The game was so underrated. Honestly, I liked it.

I. I quite enjoyed it. But I'm wondering if that will. That will happen here. I. I'm not one of those people who's like, yeah, game's gonna absolutely flop or want to get into absolutely flop, because that is people's livelihood. And I'm not an insane person. However, I is. I'm not worried about Bungie. I'm just more worried about the marathon part itself.

Well, we'll save that for another day.

Yeah. But. Yeah. Yeah, it's not. I. I don't. I don't think it's looking great for Marathon in. In a vacuum. It's fine. But with the other competition, it's got no.

Sure. All right, well, thank you guys for listening. Appreciate you. Thanks for hopping on and chatting as always, fellas. And we will see you guys next time.

You can put this voice recording away and go on with your life, because you and I both know you'd have me yapping in your ear here for the rest of your days.

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